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CPS? Police? Well-Child Visit?

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Hulksmash

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Oregon, Son resides in NY?

Honestly not sure if this goes into this forum or another, but it's all tied together and convoluted. This is long. Sorry.

Son lived with me for a little over a year here in Oregon after his mother left him at home in NY while she was out of the country. Long story short, A cps case was opened against her in 2016 for abandoning him without enough provisions when he was 17. It was closed relatively quickly as son had arrived at my home here in Oregon. He had a well-child checkup at the Police station and Mom agreed to son living with me while on a conference call with CPS. CPS closed the case. All is well. (background info)

Son and mom had kept in touch during this time. He was going to therapy. Working towards his GED, and had obtained a part-time job. In October of 2017, Mom convinced our son that he would be better off living with her. At this point in time, he was 18 with his 19th birthday right around the corner. Legally an adult. He went back to live with mom against my wishes, but being an adult, I couldn't stop him.

Custody was never switched over on either side due to his age. Of course. Support was never transferred out of state due to NY not transferring cases as long as one parent is in the state? This is at least what I was informed when I contacted the court in NY. Although, support was transferred over so that I received support instead of mom. In December, court date to transfer back over to mom. Initial appearance, Support Magistrate ordered that enough was enough. (Same magistrate for the past 20 years, think she was done with the shenanigans) No more support to be paid by either party. Mom had to be physically removed from the court room. Magistrate recused herself. New Magistrate, another court appearance in January.

I appeared telephonically. During the proceedings, I found out that Son was not in school, nor in any GED or further education program. He was not in therapy or receiving any medication management for his diagnosis. Mom's words: "He's working on himself". He did obtain a part-time job at a local grocery store working 15 hours a week. Son was now 19. Mom was awarded support along with the retroactive for the two months that he lived with her before the court date.

Now, I'm including info based on occurrence and not on order of priority.

During this process, I was working 2 jobs. One full-time, one part-time to stay afloat. First issue was new Magistrate failed to file the court order until the end of March. Arrears/Retroactive piled up. I contacted support and the court about this but got no where. Just had to wait. Supposed to be taking amount directly out of paychecks. Couldn't send payment in because there was no case number assigned yet.

With the arrears/retroactive adding up, support sent out an IWO to both my employers, (as standard practice, I understand this, but come on) and to add insult to injury, since by the computer's info, I was supposed to start paying back in October, and hadn't (due to previous paragraph) there was also a 50% overage added in to catch up on the arrears. So, not only was not one, but two jobs sending in payments but I was also paying an amount above and beyond the court order. Support assures me that once they receive these payments that they'll stop the second order. That was two pay cycles ago. I was just paid $106 for this pay cycle out of the part time job and rent is due.

Now after all of this, I've been contacted by a family member that my son had been kicked out by his mother apparently back in March and he was contacting in-laws (resides in Son's town) of my sister (lives in another state) stating he had no food, no money, and no phone and needed help. Police were called. Mother couldn't account for his whereabouts but that was all that was done on that end. A report. :mad: I told my sister that if she or her in-laws hear from him again, to please tell him to get in contact with me. I had a phone for him and could help him. Radio silence.

I don't believe he will contact me, severe case of Parental Alienation going on as sad as it is. I've contacted a lawyer about this situation and his statement to me was that it would cost more in the long run to lawyer up than it would to just shut up and pay. That there would be nothing stopping her from bringing him back into the household. Which I would be good with. At least then I would know that he's ok!

Now, my questions are thus:

Can I call CPS, and/or the Police to do a well-child visit even if he's 19? I have been searching for him to the best of my ability on this end and have the word out for him to contact me and that I will help him.

How could I prove that Son is not living with mom anymore to overturn this order?
Is this order even able to be overturned?
Can I request an accounting of how the support is being spent on Son?
Could I request that support goes directly to Son? (even if for some reason he's found his way back to his mother's but she refuses to disclose his whereabouts and well-being to me)

I'd feel much better knowing that this was going directly to his well-being. I understand the running of a household requires funding, but with him turning 20 in November, and obviously his home life is not stable, I'd rather have him have the funds directly so that he can keep a roof over his head, even if that means paying his mother rent.

I'm sorry this is so long. I'm stuck in between a rock and a hard place. With the age he is, there is only so much I can do to help him, while also protecting myself.
 


LdiJ

Senior Member
He is not a child, therefore contacting CPS or asking the police to do a well-child visit just is not appropriate. I do not know how much you are paying in child support but its only 17 months until his 21st birthday so you have to take into consideration the cost of fighting the child support order vs living with it for 17 more months. However, you also cannot allow them to continue to double dip so you have to find a way around that.
 

Hulksmash

Junior Member
Thank you. I agree, it's not worth the trouble and money to fight the original order with his 21st birthday just over a year to go. I keep telling myself, almost over. The biggest hurdle I hope to get out of the way when he turns 21 is this bickering back and forth over him. I haven't spoken to my ex in quite some time (judge ordered non-communication or communication only through email due to our volatile divorce) and want to keep it this way, but she uses our children as weapons against me and I'd very much like to have a good relationship with our children without interference.

And just an f.y.i. so there's no confusion on me mentioning our other children. We have three children together, but our 19 year old is the youngest, and while all 3 have been subjected to parental alienation, he is sadly the biggest pawn in her games. I digress.


My order in comparison to other's is a pittance but it's no amount to sneeze at either. Average around $500 a month (including original retroactive payments), with the double dipping, I'm looking at closer to $1,000. For a mental health counselor, that's a huge amount. I have no issue with supporting my children. Worked two jobs for the past 20 years to ensure their well-being, my big concern is that he is being taken care of and the support is going to his well-being. I understand household money, and it all blends in together. But when the child isn't even in the home, and is stating he's contemplating suicide because of this, I'm VERY concerned about his welfare but have no way of contacting him or finding him.

I'm working on the double-dipping. This is not the first time NYS has done this. Last time, I had to file bankruptcy due to this situation. Just had to empty out my retirement fund (only been there a little over two years so far!) last month to cover rent. I'm hoping to head it off at the pass before it goes that far this time!

"More recent New York law suggests, however, that a request for an accounting will be limited to those cases where the parents' total gross income exceeds $80,000 per year and, under Cassano v. Cassano, 651 N.E.2d 878 (N.Y. 1995), \the custodial parent must demonstrate the "reasonable needs" of the child."

Would this be a good basis to be able to request an accounting of where the support goes? Mom makes $75k a year, where I currently make $37k. My ultimate goal is to, sorry for being rude, spiteful, not sure, towards her, but to shake out of her where he is. If he's ok, in the household and being taken care of. His last communication to my sister stated he was living with a friend, and had to sell his phone to pay his rent.

I submitted this to the court, trying to appeal the original order. Regretfully, that was kicked back based on it was past the 30 days of the original hearing even though the magistrate didn't sign the court order until March. And apparently his written statement (via Facebook) to my sister stating he was down on his luck and contemplating suicide was construed as hearsay.

Previously the magistrate accepted an email written to his mother, stating he was in dire straits while he was living with me, which she used to convince him to come live in NY with her again. It was fabricated, he admitted to this in writing, but I still had to submit proof that he was with me during the time frame that he was supposedly out of my house, 6 months she claimed. This included pictures, text messages, and a statement from him that his mother had coerced him into writing the email before the magistrate deemed the email inadmissible. The magistrate at that time, even went so far as to have our son appear via video conference with a Guardian to represent him.

I know above is a little confusing. It was for me as well. She filed the original paperwork based on the email while he was still living with me in Oregon. Then once the court date was established, her phone calls became more frequent until one day, he hung up with her, grabbed his belongings and walked out the door. Next thing I knew, he was in NY.

Would there be a basis to have the support go to him directly?

THanks for the reply. I feel like I'm forgetting something but can't put my finger on it right now.
 

Hulksmash

Junior Member
Quick question, and figured I'd add it here. I'm going through the paperwork and have been paying very close attention to the dates. When I filed the appeal, with the court, it was denied in part by being over 35 days allowed for filing by mail. Now I'm looking over the dates (I knew it wasn't adding up but didn't have time to delve into it deeply) and the 35 days is just not adding up. Magistrate signed the paperwork on March 26th. I received this paperwork in the mail towards the beginning of the second week of April.

Big question, does anyone know if the court is supposed to go by the postmark date? Or by the actual received date?

I got all of my paperwork in order, and filed everything via certified mail on May 1st. Paperwork was picked up by the court clerk in NY on the 7th. 6 day difference there that I had no control over, but I do have proof of all of this.

Am I able to contest this decision and state my case that the paperwork was in in a timely manner? If I am able to contest, could someone point me to the correct NYS form to use?

Thank you.
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
What you *should* be doing is look up "emancipation".

Child support ends in New York when a child is "emancipated".

He's not living with the custodial parent, she is not supporting him, and he's unwilling to have any contact with you, that just might fulfill the requirements for emancipation in NY, releasing you from child support.

Note: one of the keys here is how/why he is not living with his mother.

I know this is perhaps a stupid question, but is the lawyer you consulted in OR or NY?
 

Hulksmash

Junior Member
I contacted support this past week. I was notified that with both jobs being hit, that they will remove one of the orders for the second amount but takes up to 20 days to resolve. Got that covered.

As for the emancipation, that is what I am trying to achieve. I have contacted mom twice now requesting the whereabouts of our son. She has not responded to me, nor do I think she will. My belief is that son is not in her house, and she is either refusing to tell me where he is because her lawyer instructed her to not incriminate herself, or she's refusing on her own because she knows the gig will be up. My bets are on the latter.

I spoke to a lawyer in NY. As for retaining a lawyer, this is where it's tough. With my income I qualify for legal aid, but I am not a resident of NYS so that disqualifies me. I'm a resident of Oregon, but the case is in NY. So, stuck between a rock and a hard place on that. Doing everything I can Pro Se, even though I would really love a lawyer!
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Slow down there, slick. She doesn't have to respond to you at all. If communications are so tense, it makes sense that she doesn't.
 

Hulksmash

Junior Member
I agree, I'm not expecting much help from her on that point. Even though I extended the same courtesy to her when she had questions while our son was in my care and over 18. I tried keeping her up to date on everything that was going on with him. I'm not lambasting her for ignoring me, I actually prefer it! I'm just kind of stuck in, I'm not really sure how to prove/disprove whether our son is living in her home and what the courts would deem suitable proof short of dragging my son into court and having him state where he is living. Which I can't do if I don't know where he is! /rock me /hardplace

And what does the posting history have to do with any of this? This situation sad as it is, is a long time running. So would make sense that there's history. Any previous posts had to deal with the court filing AT THAT TIME. Situation has changed.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
... short of dragging my son into court and having him state where he is living. Which I can't do if I don't know where he is! /rock me /hardplace ...
I doubt you could do that even if you DID know where he was.
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
Seriously this posting history is a must. :(
While this is true - and OP has made mistakes, he still may have a legal point.

If the kid refuses to obey reasonable rules at Mom's home, and kid refuses to have any contact with Dad, he just might be able to be emancipated for cs purposes. http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/nyc/family/faqs_support.shtml

Although OP is paying cs, legally the kid is an adult. He can live where he wants. Dad doesn't have to prove where the kid is. All Dad has to show is that Dad hasn't changed contact information, the kid knows how to get in touch with Dad, and doesn't.
 

Hulksmash

Junior Member
I doubt you could do that even if you DID know where he was.
The funny thing is, she brought him into court to attest to where he was living! Listen, I'm not saying you're not right. That's why I'm here. You know way more about this then I do! I find it funny that the court allowed this with her, including an email from him (which with me, it's now considered hearsay) was proven admissible into court and accepted. It is what it is. No one ever said life was fair! :)

"Big question, does anyone know if the court is supposed to go by the postmark date? Or by the actual received date?

I got all of my paperwork in order, and filed everything via certified mail on May 1st. Paperwork was picked up by the court clerk in NY on the 7th. 6 day difference there that I had no control over, but I do have proof of all of this.

Am I able to contest this decision and state my case that the paperwork was in in a timely manner? If I am able to contest, could someone point me to the correct NYS form to use?

Thank you."

This is what I'm contending with now. I'm not sure if I should fight the decision on the appeal since their biggest grievance was that it wasn't filed "on time" even though I have proof to show otherwise. Or, if I should start the process to file a modification, and even if I file the modification, I'm trying to figure out a legal and admissible way to prove/disprove son is in the house.

It is to my understanding that when I file a modification I have to include proof of what I am requesting the court to view and base their decisions on, no?

And yes, I've made financial mistakes, or dealt with situations that screwed me in the end but I had no control over. None of this has anything to do with my question mentioned in my previous reply, which I have copied and pasted it again in this reply.
 

Hulksmash

Junior Member
While this is true - and OP has made mistakes, he still may have a legal point.

If the kid refuses to obey reasonable rules at Mom's home, and kid refuses to have any contact with Dad, he just might be able to be emancipated for cs purposes. http://www.nycourts.gov/courts/nyc/family/faqs_support.shtml

Although OP is paying cs, legally the kid is an adult. He can live where he wants. Dad doesn't have to prove where the kid is. All Dad has to show is that Dad hasn't changed contact information, the kid knows how to get in touch with Dad, and doesn't.

Thank you. After responding I was able to read through the link and have decided to go through with the modification. I wasn't sure if this was going to work at first due to every other modification being so involved, I didn't think I would be able to file unless I had concrete proof to bring forth. The way this FAQ is worded though, that doesn't seem to be the case and that the Magistrate would entertain a court appearance to sort this out which is all I was trying to do! At least I'm hoping. All I can do is try, right? ;)
 

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