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Credit Card Collection Harrassment

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Bolter42

Guest
What is the name of your state? Texas
In June of 2002 I sent a credit card firm a cease
and desist letter,return receipt requested and received a return signed receipt.They keep on calling me which I was told a violation of the
Fair Debt Collection Act,is it?I have documented
all of their calls the time they called.
How can a credit card debt be collected in Texas
if there is no checking account or assets?
I have a corporation in Texas and can they reach
my stock through litigation?
 


bigun

Senior Member
Yes, they are in violation of the FDCPA. You may have enough leverage to get them delete the account in return for you not filing a lawsuit against them. Where are you on the SOL?
 

JETX

Senior Member
Q1) "In June of 2002 I sent a credit card firm a cease
and desist letter,return receipt requested and received a return signed receipt.They keep on calling me which I was told a violation of the Fair Debt Collection Act,is it?"
A1) Per the FDCPA:
"§ 805. Communication in connection with debt collection [15 USC 1692c]
(c) CEASING COMMUNICATION. If a consumer notifies a debt collector in writing that the consumer refuses to pay a debt or that the consumer wishes the debt collector to cease further communication with the consumer, the debt collector shall not communicate further with the consumer with respect to such debt, except --
(1) to advise the consumer that the debt collector's further efforts are being terminated;
(2) to notify the consumer that the debt collector or creditor may invoke specified remedies which are ordinarily invoked by such debt collector or creditor; or
(3) where applicable, to notify the consumer that the debt collector or creditor intends to invoke a specified remedy."

"§ 813. Civil liability [15 USC 1692k]
(a) Except as otherwise provided by this section, any debt collector who fails to comply with any provision of this title with respect to any person is liable to such person in an amount equal to the sum of --
(1) any actual damage sustained by such person as a result of such failure;
(2) (A) in the case of any action by an individual, such additional damages as the court may allow, but not exceeding $1,000; or
(B) in the case of a class action, (i) such amount for each named plaintiff as could be recovered under subparagraph (A), and (ii) such amount as the court may allow for all other class members, without regard to a minimum individual recovery, not to exceed the lesser of $500,000 or 1 per centum of the net worth of the debt collector; and
(3) in the case of any successful action to enforce the foregoing liability, the costs of the action, together with a reasonable attorney's fee as determined by the court. On a finding by the court that an action under this section was brought in bad faith and for the purpose of harassment, the court may award to the defendant attorney's fees reasonable in relation to the work expended and costs."

Since there actions (contact after cease and desist) is clearly a violation of the above, you can talk with an attorney about filing a suit against them (CRA), you can file an online complaint with the FTC (http://www.ftc.gov/) and/or file a complaint with the Attorney General for your state and the state that they are located in.

Q2) "How can a credit card debt be collected in Texas if there is no checking account or assets?"
A2) If there are truly no assets in Texas, then the Texas judgment would be unenforcable. But, if you have assets in another state, then the Texas judgment could be domesticated to that state and enforced there.

Q3) "I have a corporation in Texas and can they reach my stock through litigation?"
A3) Yes.
 
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Bolter42

Guest
Thanks for information

What are the odds of a creditor pursuing your stock in litigation if the debt is less than $10,000?
Just a educated guess not a legal one.
Number one they do not know I have stock and I am sure with due diligence and alot of time they could find that out,the question is will they
spend the additional money to pursue it.
This is a big credit card company and this is Texas,a very difficult state for creditors to collect money,can not get garnishment in this state,I have no checking account,no assets except
a car and that is financed.
I would think that would be a formitable task
for anyone but I know it is possible but is it
probable is the question.
 

Ladynred

Senior Member
clarify please

Is this the original creditor calling you or a collection agency ??

If its the OC, then the FDCPA does NOT apply to them.. sadly, they can call and harrass you mercilessly and there's not much you can do about it.

If this is a collection agency, then all that great info Bigun and Halket gave you on the FDCPA is applicable.
 

JETX

Senior Member
My crystal ball is still in the shop, so I really cannot foretell what someone else might do.... but I can only answer as if this were MY judgment.

Q1) "What are the odds of a creditor pursuing your stock in litigation if the debt is less than $10,000?"
A1) Very good. I have seized a fair amount of stock accounts.

Q2) "Number one they do not know I have stock and I am sure with due diligence and alot of time they could find that out,the question is will they spend the additional money to pursue it."
A2) I would. The cost to 'discover' where you have your assets could cost me as little as a few dollars.

Q3) "This is a big credit card company and this is Texas,a very difficult state for creditors to collect money,can not get garnishment in this state,I have no checking account,no assets except a car and that is financed."
A3) Texas does present its own challenges in enforcing judgments, however, it also has some benefits. One for example... is that a judgment can virtually last FOREVER here. And it accrues a minimum of 10% interest until paid. It is not uncommon for the interest to exceed the judgment amount. And for each year it is unpaid, the potential (and interest in enforcing it) increases. Oh, I might add...... the large credit card companies sell their debt out to the secondary market all the time... so the assumption that you are a little fish in a big pool would not apply if your judgment gets high enough... and a small pool buys the debt. I occasionally purchase Texas debts like credit card accounts then enforce them.... so you and I might just have an opportunity to meet in court.

Q4) "I would think that would be a formitable task for anyone but I know it is possible but is it probable is the question."
A4) Not nearly as 'formidable' as you might think. And some of us thrive on those 'special' challenges.

Don't misconstrue the above responses.... they are not intended to scare you to the table.... and are offered based solely on facts.
 

JETX

Senior Member
Re: clarify please

Ladynred said:
Is this the original creditor calling you or a collection agency ??

If its the OC, then the FDCPA does NOT apply to them.. sadly, they can call and harrass you mercilessly and there's not much you can do about it.

If this is a collection agency, then all that great info Bigun and Halket gave you on the FDCPA is applicable.
Good catch!!! I didn't even recognize that his first post mentioned sending the cease and desist to the "credit card firm"!!!!
 
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Bolter42

Guest
Reply to Lady

Reside in the State of Texas.

Yes this is the original credit card company but
I have been told by friends in the collection
business that they can not contact me either if they have received a cease and desist letter.
I assume that they know since they are in the collection business,have I assumed wrong?
Where does the law say that what you said?
Show me the statute,I believe you but I would like to see it.
 

Ladynred

Senior Member
You'll need to read the FDCPA here: http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fdcpa/fdcpact.htm

The definition of just who 'qualifies' as a debt COLLECTOR vs. an original creditor is spelled out right at the top

§ 803. Definitions [15 USC 1692a]

(4) The term "creditor" means any person who offers or extends credit creating a debt or to whom a debt is owed, but such term does not include any person to the extent that he receives an assignment or transfer of a debt in default solely for the purpose of facilitating collection of such debt for another.

(6) The term "debt collector" means any person who uses any instrumentality of interstate commerce or the mails in any business the principal purpose of which is the collection of any debts, or who regularly collects or attempts to collect, directly or indirectly, debts owed or due or asserted to be owed or due another. Notwithstanding the exclusion provided by clause (F) of the last sentence of this paragraph, the term includes any creditor who, in the process of collecting his own debts, uses any name other than his own which would indicate that a third person is collecting or attempting to collect such debts. For the purpose of section 808(6), such term also includes any person who uses any instrumentality of interstate commerce or the mails in any business the principal purpose of which is the enforcement of security interests. The term does not include --

(A) any officer or employee of a creditor while, in the name of the creditor, collecting debts for such creditor;

(B) any person while acting as a debt collector for another person, both of whom are related by common ownership or affiliated by corporate control, if the person acting as a debt collector does so only for persons to whom it is so related or affiliated and if the principal business of such person is not the collection of debts;

(C) any officer or employee of the United States or any State to the extent that collecting or attempting to collect any debt is in the performance of his official duties;

(D) any person while serving or attempting to serve legal process on any other person in connection with the judicial enforcement of any debt;

(E) any nonprofit organization which, at the request of consumers, performs bona fide consumer credit counseling and assists consumers in the liquidation of their debts by receiving payments from such consumers and distributing such amounts to creditors; and

(F) any person collecting or attempting to collect any debt owed or due or asserted to be owed or due another to the extent such activity (i) is incidental to a bona fide fiduciary obligation or a bona fide escrow arrangement; (ii) concerns a debt which was originated by such person; (iii) concerns a debt which was not in default at the time it was obtained by such person; or (iv) concerns a debt obtained by such person as a secured party in a commercial credit transaction involving the creditor.

Since the OC's *principle* business is that of extending credit, then the FDCPA does not apply. A CA's *princple* business is collecting debts for others, (this includes law firms) the FDCPA is meant to harness this particular rat pack.

Hope this helps :)
 
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Bolter42

Guest
Credit Card

Mr Halket,I appreciate your information but those comments about you and I might end up in court someday were unmerited,I am a good citizen but I am in a financial hardship right now,just need time to work out problems and with the CC companies robbing me everyday on interest I really had no choice but to do what I am doing,I will try when the time is right to do something about it,right now I just can not do anything.
Originally posted
My crystal ball is still in the shop, so I dollars.

Q3) "This is a big credit card company and this is Texas,a very difficult state for creditorssumption that you are a little fish in a big pool would not apply if your judgment gets high enough... and a small pool buys the debt. I occasionally purchase Texas debts like credit card accounts then enforce them.... so you and I might just have an opportunity to meet in court.

Q4) "I would think that would be a formitable task for anyone but I know it is possible but is it probable is the question."
A4) Not nearly as 'formidable' as you might think. And some of us thrive on those 'special' challenges.

Don't misconstrue the above responses.... they are not intended to scare you to the table.... and are offered based solely on facts.
 

JETX

Senior Member
Don:

1) Ladynred is correct. The FDCPA does NOT apply to the creditor, only to 3rd party collectors.
To prove this, I offer the following from the FDCPA commentary by the FTC:
"Section 803(6) defines "debt collector" as a party "who uses any instrumentality of interstate commerce or the mails in . . . collection of . . . debts owed . . . another."
2. Exclusions. The term does not include:
- Any person who collects debts (or attempts to do so) only in isolated instances, because the definition includes only those who "regularly" collect debts.
- A credit card issuer that collects its cardholder's account, even when the account is based upon purchases from participating merchants, because the issuer is collecting its own debts, not those "owed or due another."
- An attorney whose practice is limited to legal activities (e.g., the filing and prosecution of lawsuits to reduce debts to judgment).
3. Application of definition to creditor using another name. Creditors are generally excluded from the definition of "debt collector" to the extent that they collect their own debts in their own name. However, the term specifically applies to "any creditor who, in the process of collecting his own debts, uses any name other than his own which would indicate that a third person is" involved in the collection."


2) By the tone of your response, you have obviously done what I asked you not to do.... that was to misconstrue my response as possible intimidation as to your payment options. The creditor really has little or no sympathy for your claimed hardships. They only see this as you used THEIR money and now refuse to pay for whatever reason. I am sure that if I had borrowed the money from YOU and then I refused to pay, you would not be as understanding as you expect them to be.
 

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