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Criminal Tort vs. Contract law.. is this really Larceny???

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Devinjdean

Junior Member
Charge- Larceny $5,000 to $20,000, Felony 5

Alleged property loss- Aloha Point of Sale system origionally purchased by plaintiff/victim for $18,000 in 2012

complaint- defendent allegedly mastermined the sale of said property to a 3rd party for $2,000 in 2015. Defendent and former business partner entered into a property lease agreement which was subsequently broken by means of eviction, where plaintiff claims said property should have remained with the leased physical location. Upon inventory inspection after eviction, plaintiff/victim no longer had possession of said property. Plaintiff/victim did not bring charges in civil courts within the statute of limitations.

Defendents argument- plaintiff had a seperate purchase agreement with defendent and above mentioned business partner. Defendent provides substantiated evidence of the existence of the purchase agreement stating the purchase of "kitchen equipment and smallwares crutial to dining operations." Equipment purchase contract specifies exclusions as "fixtures, furniture, ice machine, soda machine."

Defendent provides substantiated evidence of payments totalling $20,500 of the $25,000 origional agreement amount.

Defendent provides substantiated evidence that check written from 3rd party during the sale of said property was made to former business partner.

Defendent states a position of intermediary between 3rd party and former business partner with no financial gain from sale.

Defendent states said property is considered "kitchen equipment....related to dining room services"

Defendent argues an erroneous claim by plaintiff which should be delegated in civil courts under contract law, no tort commited, argues protection under colorado's version of ELR and covered by contract.

Facts-
property not listed in lease agreement, property not specified in seperate equipment purchase agreement as either included or excluded,
both plaintiff and defendent "infere" to inclusion or exclusion of property in contract,
Plaintiff did not origionally produce or make known the existence of seperate purchase agreement,
Verefied funding exchange to former business partner not defendent,
Former business partner is not implicated or indicted,


This one is tough for me to wrap my head around. I would make an argument for the defense on the grounds that if the equipment was sold for $2,000 then the fair market value was $2,000 at the time of the sale which negates the Felony 5 charge requiring $5,000 to $20,000. I would also make the argument for the defense that there may be a possible protection in colorado econ loss rule if you could show that there is reasonable beluef that the property falls under the seperate contracts statements of "essential to dining operations" but that is all a matter of opinion as is this whole thing which is why I am having a hard time with the prosecution on this one. Additionally the sale of the property occured a few months before the eviction and the plaintiff received most of the payment along with the return of his equipment.
But i would want to know where the money ended up after the business partner received it. I would not have taken this case from the PD either since the origional discovery only included statements by some of the partys and a proof of origional property purchase and that the payment was made to a different person than the pd was investigating. Im sure more details will come up but this seems like a super risky endeavor for the prosecution that could end up with malicious prosecution allegations getting plastered on the news headlines in that smaller town.

Looking for opinions, I dont fall 100% either way. Why did the plaintiff not come forward with the purchase contract? What role did the defendent actually play in this? I dont know.
 


Devinjdean

Junior Member
Looking for debate folks

Im looking for participants to debate this subject matter. Looking for both sides no matter which side your devils advocate brain or activist heart leans to doesnt matter. This is a great situation where interpretation and opinion will really play a big role in the outcome or future consequences that could follow here and I got kind of excited when I started reading up on this one.

Jump in folks, but please allow everything to remain progessional and please specify tangible vs opinion.

Thanks all
 

quincy

Senior Member
Charge- Larceny $5,000 to $20,000, Felony 5

Alleged property loss- Aloha Point of Sale system origionally purchased by plaintiff/victim for $18,000 in 2012

complaint- defendent allegedly mastermined the sale of said property to a 3rd party for $2,000 in 2015. Defendent and former business partner entered into a property lease agreement which was subsequently broken by means of eviction, where plaintiff claims said property should have remained with the leased physical location. Upon inventory inspection after eviction, plaintiff/victim no longer had possession of said property. Plaintiff/victim did not bring charges in civil courts within the statute of limitations.

Defendents argument- plaintiff had a seperate purchase agreement with defendent and above mentioned business partner. Defendent provides substantiated evidence of the existence of the purchase agreement stating the purchase of "kitchen equipment and smallwares crutial to dining operations." Equipment purchase contract specifies exclusions as "fixtures, furniture, ice machine, soda machine."

Defendent provides substantiated evidence of payments totalling $20,500 of the $25,000 origional agreement amount.

Defendent provides substantiated evidence that check written from 3rd party during the sale of said property was made to former business partner.

Defendent states a position of intermediary between 3rd party and former business partner with no financial gain from sale.

Defendent states said property is considered "kitchen equipment....related to dining room services"

Defendent argues an erroneous claim by plaintiff which should be delegated in civil courts under contract law, no tort commited, argues protection under colorado's version of ELR and covered by contract.

Facts-
property not listed in lease agreement, property not specified in seperate equipment purchase agreement as either included or excluded,
both plaintiff and defendent "infere" to inclusion or exclusion of property in contract,
Plaintiff did not origionally produce or make known the existence of seperate purchase agreement,
Verefied funding exchange to former business partner not defendent,
Former business partner is not implicated or indicted,


This one is tough for me to wrap my head around. I would make an argument for the defense on the grounds that if the equipment was sold for $2,000 then the fair market value was $2,000 at the time of the sale which negates the Felony 5 charge requiring $5,000 to $20,000. I would also make the argument for the defense that there may be a possible protection in colorado econ loss rule if you could show that there is reasonable beluef that the property falls under the seperate contracts statements of "essential to dining operations" but that is all a matter of opinion as is this whole thing which is why I am having a hard time with the prosecution on this one. Additionally the sale of the property occured a few months before the eviction and the plaintiff received most of the payment along with the return of his equipment.
But i would want to know where the money ended up after the business partner received it. I would not have taken this case from the PD either since the origional discovery only included statements by some of the partys and a proof of origional property purchase and that the payment was made to a different person than the pd was investigating. Im sure more details will come up but this seems like a super risky endeavor for the prosecution that could end up with malicious prosecution allegations getting plastered on the news headlines in that smaller town.

Looking for opinions, I dont fall 100% either way. Why did the plaintiff not come forward with the purchase contract? What role did the defendent actually play in this? I dont know.
What is the name of your state, and who are you in this scenario and why are you trying to make arguments for the defense? Are you the defendant?
 

quincy

Senior Member
Im looking for participants to debate this subject matter. Looking for both sides no matter which side your devils advocate brain or activist heart leans to doesnt matter. This is a great situation where interpretation and opinion will really play a big role in the outcome or future consequences that could follow here and I got kind of excited when I started reading up on this one.

Jump in folks, but please allow everything to remain progessional and please specify tangible vs opinion.

Thanks all
Ahh. This is not a debate or discussion forum. Sorry.

I suggest you look to people your debate elsewhere. Thanks.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Im looking for participants to debate this subject matter.
I'm sorry, but this forum is not a debate forum. If you are actually involved in this legal matter (you are not), then you should discuss your concerns with your attorney.
 

quincy

Senior Member
Devinjdean also might want to look up the definition of "tort" before proceeding, as well. :)
 

Devinjdean

Junior Member
My apologies to zigner and quincy. Any recommendations for debate forums? Yes I do have vested interest in this particular case as I am acquaintances with both parties. But I do not know how I feel about this either way. Was being genuine and not trying to act out of line.
Again my apologies
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
My apologies to zigner and quincy. Any recommendations for debate forums? Yes I do have vested interest in this particular case as I am acquaintances with both parties. But I do not know how I feel about this either way. Was being genuine and not trying to act out of line.
Again my apologies
Sorry - this is also not a referral board.

I'd like to point out that you simply being friends with the parties does not mean you have any sort of vested interested. Frankly, if you want to maintain these friendships, your best bet is to remain uninvolved.
 

Devinjdean

Junior Member
And it is correct that I am not an attorney or law professional by any means. And I tried to replicate the wording on the discovery and the wording of both parties submitted documents. Just a regular Joe... but people like me sometimes rely on these forums to gain even a minimal understanding to help us make decisions or form our beliefs. And im sure im mot the only person who has misused "tort".

But I am at least being genuine and not really trying to attract negativity.
 

quincy

Senior Member
My apologies to zigner and quincy. Any recommendations for debate forums? Yes I do have vested interest in this particular case as I am acquaintances with both parties. But I do not know how I feel about this either way. Was being genuine and not trying to act out of line.
Again my apologies
There is no need to apologize. Others come here to debate legal topics, as well, but this forum is not designed for debates.

There are several discussion-type forums on the internet. I can't recommend any, however. You will have to do your own search.

Good luck.
 

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