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Damaged good abandoned on my doorstep

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videojeff

Junior Member
Damaged goods abandoned on my doorstep

State: WA

Hello-- I bought a new washing machine over the internet. The item arrived, exactly as ordered, in two weeks. So far, so good. The shipper left, I went to open it and found that although there was no obvious external damage, inside the box, the washer seems to have had a fork lift lowered on it (broken porcelein, dents). I called the shipper immediately (within minutes) and they redirected me to the seller.

I called the seller, and he immediately apologized and said that a replacement would be shipped out as soon as possible, after I sent him digital pictures of the damage. I sent those the same day. He did not reply to my email nor call.

The following day I called him, and he said that he would work on it, and I asked how long it would be to get the replacement. He said that he "hoped" to have it out to me within a week.

After almost a week, I had heard no update from him. I called and after leaving messages and getting no responses, I finally reached him a day or so later by calling around the company (he didn't answer calls directly to his extension, nor voicemails left for him). He said that they had no more of that model in stock and that I would have to wait for one to come from the manufacturer. He asked if the shipper had picked up the damaged unit, and I said "no".

Another week passed and no updates or word. I contact my credit card company and put a dispute in, since I received my credit card bill for the full amount charged, but I still do not have a working product. The credit card company temporarily reversed the charge and said that they will contact the merchant and if they don't rectify the situation within 30 days, then the reversal will become permanent.

My question is this: I have a damaged washing machine here taking up space in my small garage, no replacement in sight, and no effort on the merchant's part to get it out of here. What do I need to do to get it out of here? What needs to happen for it to become MY property, so that I can get rid of it myself (sell it, junk it, keep/use it, etc.) and get my garage back?
 
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Armycop

Junior Member
Technically, the property is yours. Civil law provides for a possessor of a property, without dispute, to own it. Abandonment works the same way. States will usually adopt a 30/60 day rule to establish legal ownership, i.e., if you possess an item under $1,000.00 aggregate value, and you have made valid attempts at locating an owner (newspaper ad, flyers) without response or challenge to your claim of ownership, after 60 days of possession it becomes yours.
A caveat, however. Since this item was purchased through legal means, and the payment for that item is in dispute, then no actual money has changed hands. If the company that supplied the item wishes to, they can put in a claim of ownership, or ask you, in writing, to send the item back to their place of business/residence. See, until your credit card is debited and the payment accepted as valid by your credit card company, you haven't "officially" purchased the washer. Let the credit card company handle the dipute for you. The seller has 30 days to respond to the CC company's payment refusal; if they don't respond within that time, then your CC company will strike the payment and reimburse your CC. After that, the clock on possession starts ticking.
 

videojeff

Junior Member
Thank you, Armycop,

Your reply was great. I appreciate your taking the time to give your input.

Here are some additional pieces of information:

I talked to my CC company. They have reversed the charge to my CC and said that after 30 days if the company has not resolved the matter, the reversal becomes permanent.

The washer was $1,200 with "free" shipping.

The company seems to be using a 3rd party distribution company. I get the impression that they just do the marketing and take the order. This 3rd party does everything else. I got a call from that 3rd party outfit as well, asking for more detail and photos of the damages (apparently the company that I bought the washer from isn't in close contact with this distributing company), but after that, they have not replied to my calls, emails and voice mails.

One of the questions in my mind is "What are my rights after the 30 days pass?" After the CC company strikes the payment permanently, is the washer simply mine, and am I free to sell it, install and use it if I want and ignore any other calls from the company, or am I just at the point where the CC company is out of the loop, but then legally I still need to settle with them?

I'm bugged that they have shown no concern for the fact that I've had their damaged washer in the middle of my garage for over a month now, with no proposal for how or when it will be resolved, no responses to my queries for a status, etc. At this point, I don't feel a burning need to deal kindly with them. I've tried a dozen times to do that.

Can I send them a registed letter giving them a deadline to remove it or otherwise settle this, after which time I just keep the washer and say goodbye to them?

Also, you mention that they could send me a letter in writing saying to send the item back to them--I don't have any intention of paying out of my pocket to ship back THEIR damaged goods. I intended to pay them $1,200 for a brand new washer, in brand new condition, delivered to my door. I didn't get that. Could I actually end up with the liability to ship it back at my expense? That seems un-American.

Armycop said:
Technically, the property is yours. Civil law provides for a possessor of a property, without dispute, to own it. Abandonment works the same way. States will usually adopt a 30/60 day rule to establish legal ownership, i.e., if you possess an item under $1,000.00 aggregate value, and you have made valid attempts at locating an owner (newspaper ad, flyers) without response or challenge to your claim of ownership, after 60 days of possession it becomes yours.
A caveat, however. Since this item was purchased through legal means, and the payment for that item is in dispute, then no actual money has changed hands. If the company that supplied the item wishes to, they can put in a claim of ownership, or ask you, in writing, to send the item back to their place of business/residence. See, until your credit card is debited and the payment accepted as valid by your credit card company, you haven't "officially" purchased the washer. Let the credit card company handle the dipute for you. The seller has 30 days to respond to the CC company's payment refusal; if they don't respond within that time, then your CC company will strike the payment and reimburse your CC. After that, the clock on possession starts ticking.
 

JETX

Senior Member
Armycop said:
Technically, the property is yours. Civil law provides for a possessor of a property, without dispute, to own it. Abandonment works the same way. States will usually adopt a 30/60 day rule to establish legal ownership, i.e., if you possess an item under $1,000.00 aggregate value, and you have made valid attempts at locating an owner (newspaper ad, flyers) without response or challenge to your claim of ownership, after 60 days of possession it becomes yours.
Ignore 'ArmyCop'. His OPINION is NOT correct!!!
Not only that, but above he tells you it is yours... then in the rest of his post he says "If the company that supplied the item wishes to, they can put in a claim of ownership, or ask you, in writing, to send the item back to their place of business/residence."
It's either yours or it isn't. He can't have it both ways!!

So, now that is over with.... the legally CORRECT answers:
videojeff said:
I have a damaged washing machine here taking up space in my small garage, no replacement in sight, and no effort on the merchant's part to get it out of here. What do I need to do to get it out of here?
You need to contact the seller in WRITING and ask THEM what they want you to do with THEIR property. Include that if they don't make arrangements to remove it from your property, that it will incur 'storage fees' of $XX per day for the next 30 days. After that time, the property will be disposed of without recourse and any proceeds from sale will be applied to the owed storage and sales costs.

What needs to happen for it to become MY property, so that I can get rid of it myself (sell it, junk it, keep/use it, etc.) and get my garage back?
The only way to make their property YOUR property is to pay them for it. Either full value or some reduced amount due to the damage.
 
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videojeff

Junior Member
JETX said:
The only way to make their property YOUR property is to pay them for it. Either full value or some reduced amount due to the damage.
Looks pretty sound to me. Do you think I can send that letter immediately, telling them that they need to get it out of here and that storage fees have started, even though it's still within the 30 days that the CC company gave them to resolve it?

Also, any suggestions on a guideline of what to use for store costs? I'd like to say $1,200/day and be done with it, but I suspect that there is some formula or method to arrive at a legal amount. Maybe just the local storage costs in our area? But wouldn't that involve getting it moved to that storage area, etc? What a pain. So many questions. I would like to just send them a letter saying get this out of here tomorrow and have it gone, but I'm sure that I have to light some kind of fire under them to get them moving...
 

JETX

Senior Member
videojeff said:
Do you think I can send that letter immediately, telling them that they need to get it out of here and that storage fees have started, even though it's still within the 30 days that the CC company gave them to resolve it?
Nope. You can't just 'start storage fees' without putting them on notice of them. Simply, you cannot create a contractual obligation without the other party knowing about it first.

Also, any suggestions on a guideline of what to use for store costs? I'd like to say $1,200/day and be done with it, but I suspect that there is some formula or method to arrive at a legal amount. Maybe just the local storage costs in our area?
I would think that something around $15 to $20 per day would be reasonable.
 

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