Daycare Costs and Status Quo

[KTRMom]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Oregon

Long story short, my ex husband and his current wife are getting divorced. For the last year his wife has provided daycare for my daughter with my ex, as well as for my stepdaughter and my two sons with my new husband. She is a fully licensed in-home provider and since she and my ex have a son, my daughter gets to spend a lot of time with her half-brother. I would like to keep all the children together in their current daycare, but my ex is stating that he wants our daughter in a new daycare (he also wants the other 3 kids in my home in different daycare, but realizes that he has no power in that regard). Since the daycare has been utilized on my parenting time does he really have any say? Our court order says the most dreaded of phrases "childcare provider shall be chosen as parties agree" so I fear this may go to court. I mostly think that since he is required to pay for 100% daycare costs he thinks he has final say, and he just doesn't want to pay his soon to be ex any more money for anything. Before the split his wife watched our daughter for free and my DH and I paid for daycare for the other 3 children, since he has moved out of their home I have been paying for daughter and saving the receipts for reimbursement, per the court order. He maintains that since he doesn't agree to the daycare provider anymore that he doesn't need to reimburse me. If it was just our daughter it would be one thing, but I would be looking at trying to find 4 overnights of daycare a month for 4 kids, including twins under 2 and a child who has special needs, which is pretty much impossible.

Also, can he use time that his wife has been utilized for daycare for our daughter as 'status quo' to gain more court-ordered time and have his child support reduced? Typically all the kids (DD, my step daughter and my 2 sons) spend 4 overnights a month at the daycare, though he was not always home when this occurred. He wants to be given child support credit for these 4 nights though he has already told me that he probably won't be able to take DD for any extra nights right now, which would leave me short on child support plus paying for daycare that he won't reimburse me for.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Oregon

Long story short, my ex husband and his current wife are getting divorced. For the last year his wife has provided daycare for my daughter with my ex, as well as for my stepdaughter and my two sons with my new husband. She is a fully licensed in-home provider and since she and my ex have a son, my daughter gets to spend a lot of time with her half-brother. I would like to keep all the children together in their current daycare, but my ex is stating that he wants our daughter in a new daycare (he also wants the other 3 kids in my home in different daycare, but realizes that he has no power in that regard). Since the daycare has been utilized on my parenting time does he really have any say? Our court order says the most dreaded of phrases "childcare provider shall be chosen as parties agree" so I fear this may go to court. I mostly think that since he is required to pay for 100% daycare costs he thinks he has final say, and he just doesn't want to pay his soon to be ex any more money for anything. Before the split his wife watched our daughter for free and my DH and I paid for daycare for the other 3 children, since he has moved out of their home I have been paying for daughter and saving the receipts for reimbursement, per the court order. He maintains that since he doesn't agree to the daycare provider anymore that he doesn't need to reimburse me. If it was just our daughter it would be one thing, but I would be looking at trying to find 4 overnights of daycare a month for 4 kids, including twins under 2 and a child who has special needs, which is pretty much impossible.

Also, can he use time that his wife has been utilized for daycare for our daughter as 'status quo' to gain more court-ordered time and have his child support reduced? Typically all the kids (DD, my step daughter and my 2 sons) spend 4 overnights a month at the daycare, though he was not always home when this occurred. He wants to be given child support credit for these 4 nights though he has already told me that he probably won't be able to take DD for any extra nights right now, which would leave me short on child support plus paying for daycare that he won't reimburse me for.

That is an interesting situation and I honestly can't predict what the outcome would be in court. Its a very unique situation. You can certainly argue that it would not be in the child's best interest to change the daycare situation now, and that it would be a hardship for you to have to find separate daycare for one of the 4 children living in your home. If I were in your shoes I would not change anything. I would keep using your current provider and let dad take it to court if he objects that strongly.

 

[WittyUserName]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Oregon

Long story short, my ex husband and his current wife are getting divorced. For the last year his wife has provided daycare for my daughter with my ex, as well as for my stepdaughter and my two sons with my new husband. She is a fully licensed in-home provider and since she and my ex have a son, my daughter gets to spend a lot of time with her half-brother. I would like to keep all the children together in their current daycare, but my ex is stating that he wants our daughter in a new daycare (he also wants the other 3 kids in my home in different daycare, but realizes that he has no power in that regard). Since the daycare has been utilized on my parenting time does he really have any say? Our court order says the most dreaded of phrases "childcare provider shall be chosen as parties agree" so I fear this may go to court. I mostly think that since he is required to pay for 100% daycare costs he thinks he has final say, and he just doesn't want to pay his soon to be ex any more money for anything. Before the split his wife watched our daughter for free and my DH and I paid for daycare for the other 3 children, since he has moved out of their home I have been paying for daughter and saving the receipts for reimbursement, per the court order. He maintains that since he doesn't agree to the daycare provider anymore that he doesn't need to reimburse me. If it was just our daughter it would be one thing, but I would be looking at trying to find 4 overnights of daycare a month for 4 kids, including twins under 2 and a child who has special needs, which is pretty much impossible.

Also, can he use time that his wife has been utilized for daycare for our daughter as 'status quo' to gain more court-ordered time and have his child support reduced? Typically all the kids (DD, my step daughter and my 2 sons) spend 4 overnights a month at the daycare, though he was not always home when this occurred. He wants to be given child support credit for these 4 nights though he has already told me that he probably won't be able to take DD for any extra nights right now, which would leave me short on child support plus paying for daycare that he won't reimburse me for.

Who has legal custody? And can you quote the portion of your order (minus names) that addresses child care costs?

 

[Ohiogal]

Who has legal custody? And can you quote the portion of your order (minus names) that addresses child care costs?

She stated this in her first post:

Our court order says the most dreaded of phrases "childcare provider shall be chosen as parties agree" so I fear this may go to court.

Truthfully he agreed with his wife as provider. Him changing his mind most likely will NOT matter much if he takes it to court. As for the overnights, if he was home, then he was considered PARENTING his child. It could be status quo. But if she shows that he doesn't intend to exercise those overnights now, it may not be counted and come into play for child support.

 

[WittyUserName]

She stated this in her first post:

Truthfully he agreed with his wife as provider. Him changing his mind most likely will NOT matter much if he takes it to court. As for the overnights, if he was home, then he was considered PARENTING his child. It could be status quo. But if she shows that he doesn't intend to exercise those overnights now, it may not be counted and come into play for child support.

But this is goofy Oregon, where joint legal custody is almost unheard of. If one party has legal custody, then the "daycare as both parties agree" thing may be less relevant than the "XXX parent has legal custody" portion.

Also, she says that daycare is chosen jointly but that Dad is responsible for costs. So does the order ask for Mom to pay and get reimbursed? Or is Dad supposed to handle it directly? Dad seems to think there's no reimbursement clause - so what does the order actually say?

 

[KTRMom]

Portions of court order:
Legal Custody
"Mother shall have sole legal custody of XXX. Mother�s residence shall be the primary residence for XXX and Mother shall have sole authority to make major decisions regarding XXX. Major decisions include, but are not limited to, decisions about XXX�s education, non-emergency healthcare (including medical and dental care), and religious training. Mother can make each of these decisions on XXX�s behalf without notice or input from the Father. Father shall only make only emergency medical or dental decisions on XXX�s behalf, and only after attempting to contact Mother via telephone. Father�s right to make reasonable decisions regarding XXX�s care while XXX is with him does not include giving the child haircuts or making any change in a child's appearance (i.e., tattoos, ear piercing, etc.) unless mother has agreed in advance in writing, dated and signed."

Daycare
"When neither parent is available to arrange care for XXX a licensed childcare provider shall be used. The childcare provider shall be chosen as parties agree. Father is responsible for 100% of daycare costs. Mother has 30 days to submit receipts to Father for reimbursement." There are a few other goofy sections like that in the CO where he is given some sort of input but basically I agreed to those things to get him to agree to the sole custody. Like I cannot take daughter on vacation to Mexico. Anywhere else is ok, but he is dead set against her going to Mexico. Big picture, I really don't care, so I agreed.

Dad works a night position and I would say was only home 25% of the extra overnights our daughter spent the night. Daughter is 8 years old and dad informed me today that he will fight for those 4 overnights and that she is "plenty old enough to be home alone when I'm at work." So basically his plan would be to leave her home alone in a condo and neighborhood he just moved into versus a familiar environment with her step-mom, 3 half-siblings and stepsister. Plus his new place isn't in her school district so his solution would be for her to walk 2 blocks to the public city bus stop and ride it clear across town to her school. She'd have to leave his house at 6 a.m. to make it to school on time. I don't even know if he could do that, but it scares the pants off me.

A few years ago I forgave all of dad's CS arrears, as well as the legal fees for court and all other monies owed (medical, dental and daycare bills). About $60k altogether. I don't regret it at all because since then he has stepped up and been a great dad, but now he expects me to just roll over on every topic. I am a RN and work in an ER, typically 8 nights and 4 days a month, all 12-hour shifts. If I really had to I could move my schedule around but other than dad being a pain right now this has been a wonderful situation for our family and I'd hate to muck it all up over him throwing a temper tantrum. I've pretty much accepted that he is dead set against paying for the daycare and for right now I'm fine with that as long as daughter can stay where she's at. Dad hates that stepmom and I get along and even told me that I wasn't "allowed" to talk to her anymore when they first split up. That didn't go over too well lol. Ironically, stepmom is the one who really pushed for him to get over his issues and have a relationship with our daughter so if it wasn't for her they would not even have a relationship at all. She really whipped his butt into shape and now that they aren't together I'm really hoping that he doesn't backslide into the total a** he was before.

 

[LdiJ]

Portions of court order:
Legal Custody
"Mother shall have sole legal custody of XXX. Mother�s residence shall be the primary residence for XXX and Mother shall have sole authority to make major decisions regarding XXX. Major decisions include, but are not limited to, decisions about XXX�s education, non-emergency healthcare (including medical and dental care), and religious training. Mother can make each of these decisions on XXX�s behalf without notice or input from the Father. Father shall only make only emergency medical or dental decisions on XXX�s behalf, and only after attempting to contact Mother via telephone. Father�s right to make reasonable decisions regarding XXX�s care while XXX is with him does not include giving the child haircuts or making any change in a child's appearance (i.e., tattoos, ear piercing, etc.) unless mother has agreed in advance in writing, dated and signed."

Daycare
"When neither parent is available to arrange care for XXX a licensed childcare provider shall be used. The childcare provider shall be chosen as parties agree. Father is responsible for 100% of daycare costs. Mother has 30 days to submit receipts to Father for reimbursement." There are a few other goofy sections like that in the CO where he is given some sort of input but basically I agreed to those things to get him to agree to the sole custody. Like I cannot take daughter on vacation to Mexico. Anywhere else is ok, but he is dead set against her going to Mexico. Big picture, I really don't care, so I agreed.

Dad works a night position and I would say was only home 25% of the extra overnights our daughter spent the night. Daughter is 8 years old and dad informed me today that he will fight for those 4 overnights and that she is "plenty old enough to be home alone when I'm at work." So basically his plan would be to leave her home alone in a condo and neighborhood he just moved into versus a familiar environment with her step-mom, 3 half-siblings and stepsister. Plus his new place isn't in her school district so his solution would be for her to walk 2 blocks to the public city bus stop and ride it clear across town to her school. She'd have to leave his house at 6 a.m. to make it to school on time. I don't even know if he could do that, but it scares the pants off me.

A few years ago I forgave all of dad's CS arrears, as well as the legal fees for court and all other monies owed (medical, dental and daycare bills). About $60k altogether. I don't regret it at all because since then he has stepped up and been a great dad, but now he expects me to just roll over on every topic. I am a RN and work in an ER, typically 8 nights and 4 days a month, all 12-hour shifts. If I really had to I could move my schedule around but other than dad being a pain right now this has been a wonderful situation for our family and I'd hate to muck it all up over him throwing a temper tantrum. I've pretty much accepted that he is dead set against paying for the daycare and for right now I'm fine with that as long as daughter can stay where she's at. Dad hates that stepmom and I get along and even told me that I wasn't "allowed" to talk to her anymore when they first split up. That didn't go over too well lol. Ironically, stepmom is the one who really pushed for him to get over his issues and have a relationship with our daughter so if it wasn't for her they would not even have a relationship at all. She really whipped his butt into shape and now that they aren't together I'm really hoping that he doesn't backslide into the total a** he was before.

Again, I would NOT recommend changing what you are doing. Let dad take it to court if it really bothers him that much. However, I don't see much chance of him prevailing. Nothing is guaranteed but I think that the odds would be in your favor.

 

[KTRMom]

New Question!

More details of my ex and his divorce are coming out, apparently he had been sleeping with someone else, which is what led to the split. Now he has moved this person into his new place and I am worried because this woman has already lost custody of her own 2 kids for drug use. I messaged her mom on Facebook (small town, I have known the family for 15+ years so it's not I am asking a total stranger). Her mom said the kids were removed from their mom and put with grandma 3 years ago, then after 2 years of failing drug tests grandma was given permanent custody and her daughter was given supervised visitation. The last time they were in court was about a year ago, daughter failed drug test and grandma was given custody. She also said that she honestly didn't know if her daughter was still using. I tried to talk to dad but he pretty much just blew up and said that none of it is my business. Since dad works nights I would assume that this woman would be used as childcare when he is at work so I am more than a little hesitant at just letting this happen. Dad has kiddo again June 2nd, he is skipping this weekend's visit because he has "plans". Can I ask for proof of this woman being drug-free if she is going to be watching my child, and could this qualify for emergency custody? If there is nothing I can do then I don't want to bother throwing away money I don't really have on a lawyer right now but I am pretty worried right now.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

The childcare provider shall be chosen as parties agree.

The provider was chosen as parties agreed. Dad only disagreed recently. That is not covered by the order.

 

[LdiJ]

More details of my ex and his divorce are coming out, apparently he had been sleeping with someone else, which is what led to the split. Now he has moved this person into his new place and I am worried because this woman has already lost custody of her own 2 kids for drug use. I messaged her mom on Facebook (small town, I have known the family for 15+ years so it's not I am asking a total stranger). Her mom said the kids were removed from their mom and put with grandma 3 years ago, then after 2 years of failing drug tests grandma was given permanent custody and her daughter was given supervised visitation. The last time they were in court was about a year ago, daughter failed drug test and grandma was given custody. She also said that she honestly didn't know if her daughter was still using. I tried to talk to dad but he pretty much just blew up and said that none of it is my business. Since dad works nights I would assume that this woman would be used as childcare when he is at work so I am more than a little hesitant at just letting this happen. Dad has kiddo again June 2nd, he is skipping this weekend's visit because he has "plans". Can I ask for proof of this woman being drug-free if she is going to be watching my child, and could this qualify for emergency custody? If there is nothing I can do then I don't want to bother throwing away money I don't really have on a lawyer right now but I am pretty worried right now.

I think that you should at least get a consult with a local attorney. I really understand that you don't have the money to retain one but I honestly think that you should consult with one. Since there is apparently evidence that his girlfriend lost custody of her own children over drugs it may be that you can somehow prevent her from being alone with your children. However, I think that a local attorney, who knows the climate of your local courts will be in a better position to advise you.

 

[KTRMom]

I made an appointment today with the attorney I used the last time around. Dad has a history of drug abuse issues and has had supervised visitation in the past and I'd rather err on the side of caution. I really hope that dad is not using again but everything going on the last few weeks has me wondering. In any event, I am going to do what I need to so that my child is safe.