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Dealing with old contract

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Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
update: this jack AXX has now requested a jury trial....I mean, really? A jury trial for a contract dispute?
Yes, really. Putting this in context, the vast majority of civil cases that go to trial, whether contract cases or otherwise, are tried to a jury in those courts in which juries are an option. (In most states in small claims court juries are not an option, but they are an option for most cases in the higher level courts of the state.) Bench trials (trials decided by the judge rather than by a jury) are the distinct minority of cases as lawyers for at least one side are going to prefer having a jury. And it only takes one side wanting a jury to get one. But why is a jury a big deal to you? You're not a party to the case, and it's not like having a jury trial is going to make the case a whole lot longer to resolve.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Yes, really. Putting this in context, the vast majority of civil cases that go to trial, whether contract cases or otherwise, are tried to a jury in those courts in which juries are an option. (In most states in small claims court juries are not an option, but they are an option for most cases in the higher level courts of the state.) Bench trials (trials decided by the judge rather than by a jury) are the distinct minority of cases as lawyers for at least one side are going to prefer having a jury. And it only takes one side wanting a jury to get one. But why is a jury a big deal to you? You're not a party to the case, and it's not like having a jury trial is going to make the case a whole lot longer to resolve.
Doesn't it make it a lot more expensive though?
 

Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
Doesn't it make it a lot more expensive though?
Not a lot more, no. There is extra time involved in picking the jury, and certain formalities that go along with a jury also adds some extra time to the trial, though not a lot, and there is the time for jury deliberation. The jury deliberation time doesn't add to the lawyer's fee, though. The rest of the trial is much the same.

I have to present my evidence, cross examine the witnesses for the opposing side, make arguments in favor of my client, etc, whether the trial is to a judge or to a jury. How I do things would vary a bit, but the time spent in court to do it will end up being about the same.

Out of curiousity, what makes you think the jury trial would be "a lot more expensive"?
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Not a lot more, no. There is extra time involved in picking the jury, and certain formalities that go along with a jury also adds some extra time to the trial, though not a lot, and there is the time for jury deliberation. The jury deliberation time doesn't add to the lawyer's fee, though. The rest of the trial is much the same.

I have to present my evidence, cross examine the witnesses for the opposing side, make arguments in favor of my client, etc, whether the trial is to a judge or to a jury. How I do things would vary a bit, but the time spent in court to do it will end up being about the same.

Out of curiousity, what makes you think the jury trial would be "a lot more expensive"?
Mostly the time picking the jury. Although perhaps that goes a lot faster in real life than I thought.
 

quincy

Senior Member
Anything that increases the time that must be devoted to a case will increase the costs. How much time is spent on seating a jury depends on the case.
 

Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
Mostly the time picking the jury. Although perhaps that goes a lot faster in real life than I thought.
For most jury cases that I try the court sets aside half a day for jury selection, though rarely do we need all that time. A couple of hours generally suffices. It is high profile cases with a lot of media attention that will cause the longest jury selection issues because of the need to wade through a much larger jury pool to find those jurors who have not yet heard of the case and formed some opinion about it. The jury selection in those cases can run several days or, in a few cases, a week or more. But that's definitely the unusual case. And there are cases involving highly charged issues that many people have strong opinions about, like abortion, religious rights, etc, that would also require a longer jury selection process to weed out those that have those strong views. Again, though, those are not the common cases. But of course the cases that have high media attention or involve highly charged issues are the ones you hear most about, so it would not surprise me that people think the jury selection process takes days in the usual case, too, if that's all they've seen of jury selection.

Anything that increases the time that must be devoted to a case will increase the costs. How much time is spent on seating a jury depends on the case.
That's true, but in most cases the jury selection process isn't a really long drawn out affair, as I indicated above. So while it would increase costs a bit for a client paying the lawyer strictly by the hour, in terms of total cost of the litigation it's not a huge increase over what it would cost to try the case to a judge.
 

quincy

Senior Member
For most jury cases that I try the court sets aside half a day for jury selection, though rarely do we need all that time. A couple of hours generally suffices. It is high profile cases with a lot of media attention that will cause the longest jury selection issues because of the need to wade through a much larger jury pool to find those jurors who have not yet heard of the case and formed some opinion about it. The jury selection in those cases can run several days or, in a few cases, a week or more. But that's definitely the unusual case. And there are cases involving highly charged issues that many people have strong opinions about, like abortion, religious rights, etc, that would also require a longer jury selection process to weed out those that have those strong views. Again, though, those are not the common cases. But of course the cases that have high media attention or involve highly charged issues are the ones you hear most about, so it would not surprise me that people think the jury selection process takes days in the usual case, too, if that's all they've seen of jury selection.



That's true, but in most cases the jury selection process isn't a really long drawn out affair, as I indicated above. So while it would increase costs a bit for a client paying the lawyer strictly by the hour, in terms of total cost of the litigation it's not a huge increase over what it would cost to try the case to a judge.
You try a lot of tax cases?
 

Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
You try a lot of tax cases?
I litigate tax cases more than anything else. Most federal tax cases are litigated in Tax Court, where there is no jury and which has its own set of procedures; unlike most other federal courts it does not use the federal rules of civil procedure. But some cases are tried in federal District court, and those cases do have juries. And of course, cases in state court or in non tax matters often have juries.
 

quincy

Senior Member
I litigate tax cases more than anything else. Most federal tax cases are litigated in Tax Court, where there is no jury and which has its own set of procedures; unlike most other federal courts it does not use the federal rules of civil procedure. But some cases are tried in federal District court, and those cases do have juries. And of course, cases in state court or in non tax matters often have juries.
Interesting.
 

Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
Interesting.
Let me clarify that my tax practice is a combination of tax controversy (which includes but is not limited to litigation in court), advice/transactional work. I also do some nontax business transactional and litigation work, too. I don't wish to leave the impression that I only do litigation, which I see my previous response might be taken as suggesting that.
 
Yes, really. Putting this in context, the vast majority of civil cases that go to trial, whether contract cases or otherwise, are tried to a jury in those courts in which juries are an option. (In most states in small claims court juries are not an option, but they are an option for most cases in the higher level courts of the state.) Bench trials (trials decided by the judge rather than by a jury) are the distinct minority of cases as lawyers for at least one side are going to prefer having a jury. And it only takes one side wanting a jury to get one. But why is a jury a big deal to you? You're not a party to the case, and it's not like having a jury trial is going to make the case a whole lot longer to resolve.
I am not a legal person AT ALL and i thought that this would simply go in front of a judge will decide if the contract is legal or not. I have just never heard of this kind of case going in front of a jury before. Looks like they’re going to court in July. In the meantime we sit in limbo
 

quincy

Senior Member
I am not a legal person AT ALL and i thought that this would simply go in front of a judge will decide if the contract is legal or not. I have just never heard of this kind of case going in front of a jury before. Looks like they’re going to court in July. In the meantime we sit in limbo
It could very well settle before trial.
 

Taxing Matters

Overtaxed Member
I am not a legal person AT ALL and i thought that this would simply go in front of a judge will decide if the contract is legal or not. I have just never heard of this kind of case going in front of a jury before. Looks like they’re going to court in July. In the meantime we sit in limbo
It's very common for contract cases, other than in small claims court, to go to a jury trial. The main categories of civil cases between private parties (i.e. where the government is not a party) that don't go to a jury in most states are small claims court cases, family court matters (divorce, custody, child support, etc), and probate cases.
 

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