debt collection and harassement

[curiously]

What is the name of your state? ok

anyone that reads this and can give me some real legal advice, i would GREATLY appreciate it. in 1996 my ex-husband purchased a car with me as the co-signer. in 97' we separated and in 2000 our divorce was final. It is now 2006 and I recently recieved a phone call from a collector stating that there had been a judgment put against ME! In a matter of 2 weeks the collector called me 8 times in which 5 of those days were weekends and a holiday. The collector will call 2 or 3 times a day and the calls have become taunting. At what point do these calls become harassement? what can I do about his constant calling? Has my statue of limitations expired? The collector claims that there is no statue of limitations as long as they continue to refile the claim, is that true?

 

[Ladynred]

Has my statue of limitations expired?

Not if they TRULY have a JUDGMENT against you ! You need to find out if there really is one. Call the courthouse and ask the court clerk. If you've moved, call the courthouse where you were before but VERIFY the existence of this judgment. Get a copy of the case file if it's legit.

The collector claims that there is no statue of limitations as long as they continue to refile the claim, is that true?

If they really have a judgment, it probably is. Judgments are good for 10 years and can be renewed, somtimes indefnitely depending on state law.

 

[JETX]

At what point do these calls become harassement?

Never. The simple matter is that the creditor has the right to contact you as needed to try to get you to pay the valid judgment.

what can I do about his constant calling?

Heck, that is simple. Pay the judgment in full and I bet he will NEVER contact you again.

Has my statue of limitations expired?

Depends. An Oklahoma judgment is valid for 5 years and can be renewed. If it has been more than 5 years from the date of the judgment and it wasn't renewed, then it has expired. If not, or if it was renewed, then it hasn't.

The collector claims that there is no statue of limitations as long as they continue to refile the claim, is that true?

As noted above, an Oklahoma judgment can be renewed.

 

[curiously]

Ok Jetx....

I understand you like to be heard online but listen closely to the details of the postings
The debt was my ex husbands!!!!!!!!! Would you pay something that you felt wasn't your responsiblility? Second, I can't believe that you would say that at NO point do these calls become harassing. Collectors are allowed by law to call an individual home 2 or 3 times a DAY????????? I have collected the phone schedule to show the frequency of calls and also plan to record the next conversation we have. The calls are not only irritating but taunting, unprofessional and in my opinion harassing. I have done some research on the laws for judgments, debts and harassement so thanks for your help.

 

[Ladynred]

The debt was my ex husbands!!!!!!!!!

Yes.. which you say you co-signed on ! That means they can come after you if he doesn't pay up.

Second, I can't believe that you would say that at NO point do these calls become harassing. Collectors are allowed by law to call an individual home 2 or 3 times a DAY?????????

Per the FDCPA:

§ 806. Harassment or abuse [15 USC 1692d]

A debt collector may not engage in any conduct the natural consequence of which is to harass, oppress, or abuse any person in connection with the collection of a debt. Without limiting the general application of the foregoing, the following conduct is a violation of this section:

(1) The use or threat of use of violence or other criminal means to harm the physical person, reputation, or property of any person.

(2) The use of obscene or profane language or language the natural consequence of which is to abuse the hearer or reader.

(3) The publication of a list of consumers who allegedly refuse to pay debts, except to a consumer reporting agency or to persons meeting the requirements of section 603(f) or 604(3)1 of this Act.

(4) The advertisement for sale of any debt to coerce payment of the debt.

(5) Causing a telephone to ring or engaging any person in telephone conversation repeatedly or continuously with intent to annoy, abuse, or harass any person at the called number.

(6) Except as provided in section 804, the placement of telephone calls without meaningful disclosure of the caller's identity.

 

[guest.]

fishy

You can go to www.oscn.net or www.odcr.com and find out if you have any judgments against you depending on which county you live in. If you do, were you ever served? They obviously have a worthless lawyer if they have a judgment and haven't garnished you or otherwise had you appear to show assets.

If a "debt collector" is contacting you about a judgment and you want them to stop send them a CMRRR cease communication letter (see the FDCPA). If they don't have a judgment and are representing that they do, get a lawyer and sue them.

 

[JETX]

What both you and Ladynred and 'guest' have overlooked is that this is a JUDGMENT!!!
It is NOT a general debt. Second, since it is a co-signer obligation, the judgment is NOT considered a CONSUMER debt.... further making it not subject to FDCPA.

That means that Ladynred's reference to the FDCPA as protection from 'harassment' isn't correct.
It also means that 'guests' post about sending them a 'cease and desist' also isn't correct.

That also means that all of my posts (this is YOUR debt and the judgment creditor calling you is NOT harassment).... are correct.

 

[Ladynred]

Oh, but it is. Collections for judgments ARE treated the same way under the FDCPA.

§ 803. Definitions [15 USC 1692a]

As used in this title --
(5) The term "debt" means any obligation or alleged obligation of a consumer to pay money arising out of a transaction in which the money, property, insurance or services which are the subject of the transaction are primarily for personal, family, or household purposes, whether or not such obligation has been reduced to judgment.

(6) The term "debt collector" means any person who uses any instrumentality of interstate commerce or the mails in any business the principal purpose of which is the collection of any debts, or who regularly collects or attempts to collect, directly or indirectly, debts owed or due or asserted to be owed or due another.

§ 806. Harassment or abuse [15 USC 1692d]

A debt collector may not engage in any conduct the natural consequence of which is to harass, oppress, or abuse any person in connection with the collection of a debt.

A judgment is most certainly a debt, and under the definitiions in Section 803 that INCLUDES judgments .. which then means Section 806 applies.

A lawfirm trying to collect on a judgment for a Plaintiff creditor is certainly directly or indirectly attempting to collect on a debt 'owed or due or asserted to be owed or due another'.

In Section 809 for Validation of debts, judgments are again mentioned and included:

§ 809. Validation of debts [15 USC 1692g]

(a) Within five days after the initial communication with a consumer in connection with the collection of any debt, a debt collector shall, unless the following information is contained in the initial communication or the consumer has paid the debt, send the consumer a written notice containing --
(4) a statement that if the consumer notifies the debt collector in writing within the thirty-day period that the debt, or any portion thereof, is disputed, the debt collector will obtain verification of the debt or a copy of a judgment against the consumer and a copy of such verification or judgment will be mailed to the consumer by the debt collector;

It seems pretty clear to me that a judgment collection DOES fall under the FDCPA.

 

[JETX]

It seems pretty clear to me that a judgment collection DOES fall under the FDCPA.

Sorry, but you are NOT correct on two counts:
1) As long as the judgment enforcement is being pursued by the judgment CREDITOR... it does NOT follow under the FDCPA as it is NOT a 3rd party!!

2) And in THIS particular case, since the judgment is against a GUARANTOR (second party) on the note (not a CONSUMER) it again is NOT under the FDCPA.... even if that guarantor is in fact a consumer, their action as GUARANTOR precludes their 'consumer' status.

 

[Ladynred]

I recently recieved a phone call from a collector

Collector = 3rd party. Nowhere does she say the actual CREDITOR is calling her.

And.. again, from the FDCPA Section 603 Definitions:

(3) The term "consumer" means any natural person obligated or allegedly obligated to pay any debt

.

So, the OP is a 'natural person' unless she's an android and not telling us, and is "obligated or allegedly obligated to pay' - co-signers are obligated if the primary defaults.. so she IS obligated.

I think you're splitting hairs and considering what you do for a living I can see why YOU would not want to be bound by such an inconvenient law as the FDCPA, it might cramp your style

 

[JETX]

Collector = 3rd party. Nowhere does she say the actual CREDITOR is calling her.

All I can say is... in my experience it is VERY unusual for a judgment creditor to hire a '3rd party debt collector'. From that, I really can't take the OP literally. Now, if she were to come back and tell us the NAME of this '3rd party debt collector', I would agree with you 110%

I think you're splitting hairs and considering what you do for a living I can see why YOU would not want to be bound by such an inconvenient law as the FDCPA, it might cramp your style

It's not a matter of 'want'. In fact, I am in FULL compliance with the FDCPA... even though 99.5% of the judgments I own are NOT subject to the FDCPA (look of the FDCPA definition of 'debt'!!).

 

[guest.]

Not to argue as I have never noticed you posting any incorrect information, but why would the requirement of the validation of debt say something about giving proof of such judgment if it did not govern judgments?

 

[guest.]

Sorry, I did too much skimming when I read the new posts and you have already answered my question. Most debt collectors probably aren't as smart as you however and in the end it would be up to the judge to decide if the FDCPA applied.

 

[Ladynred]

In fact, I am in FULL compliance with the FDCPA

I wouldn't expect anything less

n my experience it is VERY unusual for a judgment creditor to hire a '3rd party debt collector'

Is it that unusual for judgments to be sold off to JDB's and collectors ? I hear about contact from many of the well-known CA's contacting people for judgments, CA's that were not involved in the original lawsuit.

 

[TigerD]

The difference is that when one buys a judgment and receives an assignment of judgment, then they are the legal judgment creditor whether or not they were a party to the original lawsuit.

DC