• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

Defamation/Libel Help Neded

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

Ray Cornett

New member
What is the name of your state? California

I am in the business of repairing and restoring vintage fountain pens.

Back in early/ mid-2016, my fiance got an injury that required complete bed rest for months. That being said, my business and the work it involved had to be put on hold. Near the end of 2016, I also got an injury that resulted in a serious infection, sepsis, and then having to have my big toe amputated. This resulted in me being bedridden myself until early 2017. During this time customers continued to send pens in for repair which means I would be even more backed up when I was finally well enough to get back to doing the work. In the meantime, I was involved in a trade of one pen with a lady and it never arrived. I told her I would get another pen just like it and send it to her. This apparently took too long for her, although she said she understood. As a result, she went online into one of the forms for fountain pen collectors about this but did not mention my name publically. However, she evidently told my name to one of the worst pot stirrers in these forums who decided to blast me in the forum which started an entire storm of drama. People saying I was stealing people's pens, ripping them off in trades and such even though they were people I had never even dealt with.
These lies all but killed my business.

I eventually caught up on all repairs with the exception of two customers. 1 customer's pen needs a certain replacement part which has proven difficult to find. I have kept in contact with him and he has been understanding. The other customer has been negotiating a trade with me for the pens he sent to be repaired.

Upon getting caught up on the backlog I began accepting new customers. I had no problems with any customers from then until now. One lady sent me two pens. One was a normal, very low end cheaply made vintage fountain pen worth less than my fee for fixing it, and the other used a glass nib, which was broken. I finished the normal pen and waited for her to send the replacement glass nib for months but she never did. A few days ago she became very demanding that I send her pens back as is and that it had been over a year since she sent them to me. This is true but that is her fault in my opinion since she knew I was waiting for her to send me the replacement part.

She received the pens back from me in the mail today. I discovered that she had gone into one of the forums telling people I had her pens for two years instead of one(I never even talked to her until August of 2017, so 2 years is impossible), and that I am the one that broke the glass nib, that I did not fix the other pen and even switched out the nib on the pen for a cheaper one which is not possible. The pen was a very low-end pen with a cheap steel nib. I couldn't possibly have a reason to switch out the nib for another. I never removed it from the pen at all.

I am being told people want to charge me with mail fraud and theft.
 


quincy

Senior Member
What is the name of your state? California

I am in the business of repairing and restoring vintage fountain pens.

Back in early/ mid-2016, my fiance got an injury that required complete bed rest for months. That being said, my business and the work it involved had to be put on hold. Near the end of 2016, I also got an injury that resulted in a serious infection, sepsis, and then having to have my big toe amputated. This resulted in me being bedridden myself until early 2017. During this time customers continued to send pens in for repair which means I would be even more backed up when I was finally well enough to get back to doing the work. In the meantime, I was involved in a trade of one pen with a lady and it never arrived. I told her I would get another pen just like it and send it to her. This apparently took too long for her, although she said she understood. As a result, she went online into one of the forms for fountain pen collectors about this but did not mention my name publically. However, she evidently told my name to one of the worst pot stirrers in these forums who decided to blast me in the forum which started an entire storm of drama. People saying I was stealing people's pens, ripping them off in trades and such even though they were people I had never even dealt with.
These lies all but killed my business.

I eventually caught up on all repairs with the exception of two customers. 1 customer's pen needs a certain replacement part which has proven difficult to find. I have kept in contact with him and he has been understanding. The other customer has been negotiating a trade with me for the pens he sent to be repaired.

Upon getting caught up on the backlog I began accepting new customers. I had no problems with any customers from then until now. One lady sent me two pens. One was a normal, very low end cheaply made vintage fountain pen worth less than my fee for fixing it, and the other used a glass nib, which was broken. I finished the normal pen and waited for her to send the replacement glass nib for months but she never did. A few days ago she became very demanding that I send her pens back as is and that it had been over a year since she sent them to me. This is true but that is her fault in my opinion since she knew I was waiting for her to send me the replacement part.

She received the pens back from me in the mail today. I discovered that she had gone into one of the forums telling people I had her pens for two years instead of one(I never even talked to her until August of 2017, so 2 years is impossible), and that I am the one that broke the glass nib, that I did not fix the other pen and even switched out the nib on the pen for a cheaper one which is not possible. The pen was a very low-end pen with a cheap steel nib. I couldn't possibly have a reason to switch out the nib for another. I never removed it from the pen at all.

I am being told people want to charge me with mail fraud and theft.
Who told you "people" want to charge you with mail fraud and theft? Have you been charged with mail fraud and theft?

Is what had been said about you online by your customers substantially true?
 

Ray Cornett

New member
Who told you "people" want to charge you with mail fraud and theft? Have you been charged with mail fraud and theft?

Is what had been said about you online by your customers substantially true?
I have seen discussions where getting me investigated by the USPS is being mentioned but I have not been charged or approached by the USPS

No truth in their claims other than that I took too long to get the work done which I have to agree to. No theft. I agree the work took a long time but it was due to health problems which can be verified through medical records. I can't do this type of work in bed or with my foot propped up above my heart. The only one out of many people talking about me that actually had work done by me is the lady whose pen I traded to her never arrived(I sent her another) and the one who said I had her pens for 2 years which is twice as long as I had them.
Some of the customers whose pens I did have for a long time due to health reasons all told me they understood and some even sent me more pens to work on.
 

quincy

Senior Member
I have seen discussions where getting me investigated by the USPS is being mentioned but I have not been charged or approached by the USPS

No truth in their claims other than that I took too long to get the work done which I have to agree to. No theft. I agree the work took a long time but it was due to health problems which can be verified through medical records. I can't do this type of work in bed or with my foot propped up above my heart. The only one out of many people talking about me that actually had work done by me is the lady whose pen I traded to her never arrived(I sent her another) and the one who said I had her pens for 2 years which is twice as long as I had them.
Some of the customers whose pens I did have for a long time due to health reasons all told me they understood and some even sent me more pens to work on.
Thank you for the additional information.

Have you responded to the discussion comments to explain the reasons behind the delays in getting pens to your customers?

The two customers who complained appear to have had voiced legitimate and substantially true complaints. There was a problem with a lost delivery and there was a problem with you getting repairs made in a timely fashion (even if the customer said 2 years instead of 1).

Mentioning that an investigation should be done is not exactly accusing you of a crime (the accusation of which potentially could be defamatory) but mentioning an investigation definitely indicates a concern about your business operation.

You appear to have taken on more work than you could possibly handle and this has resulted in unhappy customers.

Because you are still getting customers, however, it does not appear your reputation has been harmed to a greater extent by the negative comments than it was harmed already by your own delays in satisfying your customer orders.

I suggest you explain on the discussion forum that the medical problems suffered by both you and your fiancé prevented you from responding to customer orders and concerns as rapidly or as well as you would have liked. Apologize to your customers.

I do not see any legal action you can pursue, based strictly on what you have said. You can have an attorney in your area look at what was written about you to determine this better.

Here is a link to California's defamation laws: https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/california-defamation-law

Good luck. I hope you have now recovered from your health problems.
 
Last edited:

Ray Cornett

New member
Thank you for the additional information.

Have you responded to the forum comments to explain the delays in getting pens to your customers?

The two customers who complained appear to have had voiced substantially true complaints. There was a problem with a lost delivery and there was a problem with you getting repairs made in a timely fashion (even if the customer said 2 years instead of 1).

Mentioning that an investigation should be done is not exactly accusing you of a crime (an accusation of which could be defamatory) but it definitely indicates a concern about your business operation.

You appear to have taken on more work than you could handle and this has resulted in unhappy customers.

Because you are still getting customers, it does not appear your reputation has been harmed to a greater extent by the negative comments than it was harmed already by your own delays in satisfying your customer orders.

I suggest you explain on the forum that the medical problems suffered by both you and your fiancé prevented you from responding to customer orders and concerns as rapidly or as well as you would have liked. Apologize to your customers.

I do not see any legal action you can pursue, based strictly on what you have said. You can have an attorney in your area look at what was written about you to determine this better.

Here is a link to California's defamation laws: https://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/california-defamation-law

Good luck
I did post an explanation when it all began, yes. As for taking on more than I can chew, my work load was fine and then my fiance got injured and then I got injured. In the mean time customers were mailing me pens to work on all on their own. I had no idea they were coming my way until they arrived.
Thank you for your time.
 

Ray Cornett

New member
My concern is how do I approach the new claim. The lady saying I switched her nib out with another and that I didn't do the work on the pen and that I broke the glass nib. It was broken when it arrived. The only thing holding it in was old dry ink caked in it.
 

quincy

Senior Member
My concern is how do I approach the new claim. The lady saying I switched her nib out with another and that I didn't do the work on the pen and that I broke the glass nib. It was broken when it arrived. The only thing holding it in was old dry ink caked in it.
There are a few ways to handle a disgruntled customer.

One way is to satisfy the customer, even if you are not at fault. This is the "customer is always right" practice. Replace the nib, even at a loss to you.

Another way is to argue fault. This is the "standing on principle " practice. Don't replace the nib and wait for negative reviews or a lawsuit.

Another way is to negotiate some sort of a middle ground. This is the "no one wins, no one loses" practice. How you negotiate is up to you. You could perhaps provide a discount.

Again, though, I am not seeing any legal action to pursue (at this point).

Good luck
 

mjpayne

Active Member
My concern is how do I approach the new claim. The lady saying I switched her nib out with another and that I didn't do the work on the pen and that I broke the glass nib. It was broken when it arrived. The only thing holding it in was old dry ink caked in it.
Defamation is a civil matter you would pursue, but you have to show damages and she has to be lying. Sounds like you got injured and couldn't work. It provides an excuse for why work took a long time, but it doesn't make her a liar. I doubt you'll get anywhere pursuing her online (I assume that's where the "discussion" took place) comments about you.

The mail fraud is a totally different criminal offense (and a serious one). Some internet armchair lawyer probably brought it up on the discussion board and I bet nobody even seriously considered pursuing it.
 
Last edited:

quincy

Senior Member
The comments appear to be either substantially true or suggestions by others as to what those who have not received their pens could do if Ray Cornett does not satisfy their orders.

Ray has addressed the complaints and Ray has continued to receive orders despite the postings online.

I see no defamation claim that could easily be supported, based on what Ray has said.
 
Last edited:

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
data-ad-format="auto">
Top