Definition of "as-is"

[OregonDave]

What is the name of your state? FL

I live in Oregon and I purchased a used BMW from a licensed Florida dealer after discovering it on eBay.

The vehicle was defined as having an optional suspension package costing $4,000 and thereby justifying a higher value. I purchased the vehicle without using eBay, but when I received it, it had stock suspension and not the optional suspension package.

I disputed the VISA charge for $4,000 to cover the cost of obtaining the optional suspension package.

The purchase agreement contained an "as-is" and no refund clause, and the dealer is claiming that since I agreed to this, he can keep the $4,000.

My argument is that "as-is" and no refund refers to the item condition, and not the item description, or definition. If this were not true, what's to stop a seller from sending me a Chevy or even anything and hiding behind an "as-is" clause? eBay even has two distinct sections in it's listing services: one for a seller to provide the Vehicle Description, and another section to provide the Vehicle Condition.

I now need to convince the credit card company that an "as-is" and no refund clause does not allow a seller to deliver a product different than that defined/described and agreed to.

Any suggestions?

 

[BelizeBreeze]

As is means that you buy the item as it sits.

And that's what you did.

The ONLY claim you may have is to sue the selling in a Florida Court for fraud.

 

[OregonDave]

I didn't buy it as it sits, I bought it as it was described. He then shipped it to me, but it was not as described.

BTW, his reference to "as-is" was in eBay's Vehicle Condition section, and not in the Vehicle Description section.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

I didn't buy it as it sits, I bought it as it was described. He then shipped it to me, but it was not as described.

BTW, his reference to "as-is" was in eBay's Vehicle Condition section, and not in the Vehicle Description section.

And you would be wrong. If you want to attend law school at night while you work to pay this car off then be my guest.

Remember "Let the buyer beware"? That's what "as is' means. You bought it as it sits, with no guarantee or warranty.

And if you still question me, pull out your checkbook, park your butt in an attorney's office in your city, and pay them $500 to tell you what "AS IS" means in the LAW.

 

[dallas702]

With all due respect to the prolific Mr. Belize, IMHO you have a case. The fact that the car is not materially what was claimed and advertised is different than its condition. The only people you need to convince that you did not get what you paid for is the credit card company (right now). They can be sticky, but they will seek the advice of their own attorneys before they do anything. You have to be emphatic with them and prove your case. Sometimes it isn't 100% about "legal" terminology. I have seen many judges on many different occasions trump the "as is" claim with what is right...and they were never reversed. If your credit card company disagrees with you and gives the seller the money you even have some legal recourse there. I observed 3 cases just this past year where major CC companies were ordered to reimburse cardholders because their theory(ies) about reimbursement were wrong. At least one judge called two CCCs "abusive" towards their own customers. He pondered awarding punitive damages, but did not. There are so many of those situations they end up in class action suits (hey, I got a check from MBNA last year...a pittance, but it was real money).

Anyway, if you don't mind a little legwork and time you should (again...my opinion) pursue it. Fact is, you did not get what you paid for. There are plenty of avenues for moving forward, but only one path if you stop.

 

[OregonDave]

I finally found a definition of "as-is" as it relates to Florida. It is not definitive, but it might be indicitive as referring to item condition.

Link to the definition:
http://www.uslegalforms.com/florida-bill-of-sale-forms.htm

Copied from the page:

What does "as-is" mean? This means that you do not guarantee the condition of the property or that the property is free from defect. Unless you add a provison to the bill of sale that you warrant the condition for a certain number of days, the transfer is generally without warranties. However, the "as-is" language clarifies that no written or verbal warranties were made to the buyer and is used to protect the seller.

 

[mooloo27]

Im totally not a lawyer but wouldnt that be a case under misrepresentation?

 

[BelizeBreeze]

With all due respect to the prolific Mr. Belize, IMHO you have a case. The fact that the car is not materially what was claimed and advertised is different than its condition. The only people you need to convince that you did not get what you paid for is the credit card company (right now). They can be sticky, but they will seek the advice of their own attorneys before they do anything. You have to be emphatic with them and prove your case. Sometimes it isn't 100% about "legal" terminology. I have seen many judges on many different occasions trump the "as is" claim with what is right...and they were never reversed. If your credit card company disagrees with you and gives the seller the money you even have some legal recourse there. I observed 3 cases just this past year where major CC companies were ordered to reimburse cardholders because their theory(ies) about reimbursement were wrong. At least one judge called two CCCs "abusive" towards their own customers. He pondered awarding punitive damages, but did not. There are so many of those situations they end up in class action suits (hey, I got a check from MBNA last year...a pittance, but it was real money).

Anyway, if you don't mind a little legwork and time you should (again...my opinion) pursue it. Fact is, you did not get what you paid for. There are plenty of avenues for moving forward, but only one path if you stop.

Look at my response again. DID I SAY HE DIDN'T HAVE A CASE?

What I told him is that he purchased a car 'as - is' and he doesn't have a case ON THAT BASIS.

Now are we going to play this game all day?

 

[dallas702]

You know what Mr "attitude" Belize, maybe you have some knowledge about some law. Maybe you're even a lawyer somewhere, but I doubt it. Maybe you like to research legal formats and cases for some purpose. I don't know what your claim to fame is. I do know you have a lousy attitude and seem to have a real chip on your shoulder. I said this before, and I'll ask you again...why do you bother replying to people if all you're going to do is insult them and make rude remarks?

Now, to the reality of law and lawsuits. I am not a lawyer, but I have spent countless hours in courtrooms, preparing legal documents, doing research, and being involved in the legal community. I spent a number of years on the advisory committee of one of the best law schools in the western U.S. I only visited this site to get a simple answer to a simple question, but when I see the kind of rudeness and ridiculous treatment of those who come here for help by those who seem to spend their lives here, I have to interject a little reality into the process.

You, Mr. Belize (and a few others) seem to be stuck in part of the system that thinks that the law is only meted out by the "letter" of it. The FACT is, the "law" is applied in the courtroom by the Judge. The Judge is the king of the court, and unless there are two VERY competent, well-paid lawyers duking it out, and maybe the media is watching, what that Judge rules is what's going to happen.....especially in "equity" courts where it is the Judges responsibilty to adjudicate damages and awards. I put the big "J" on Judge to make the point that no matter what you think the letter of the law says, the Judge will use the theory and intent 90% of the time to make an equitable decision. The laws aren't perfect. That's why we have Judges (who aren't perfect either). Every day, in any courtroom in any city of this country Judges make decisions based on what they feel is fair and "just" based on their knowledge of not only the law, but also what works to keep our system civil. No matter what weight they give to the letter of the law vs. equity, the Judge is the final word. Hundreds of thousands of cases are decided on this basis every year, and only a tiny fraction are appealed...then the same process starts all over. That is true all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court.

So, you can rag on these people all you want, and you can take all the shots at me you want, but it doen't make your advice right. You seem to have an obsession with deterring people from using the legal system to gain justice. I prefer to encourage people to do their research, get the best help possible, do all the right steps....and then don't get scared away from taking a scoundrel to court. Let the Judge decide who's right and who's wrong...not some cranky, negative forum poster with a bad attitude.

I would take my chances with a Judge on this case any day, and almost anywhere.

 

[BelizeBreeze]

And you MR. Dallas, are consistantly wrong on these forums and offer absolutely no valid legal advice.

 

[dallas702]

Says you, mr. Belize. Says you.

I prefer choices to negativism.

 

[OregonDave]

Just so I understand the concept...

BelizeBreeze walks into a Home Depot and buys a demo lawn mower with a five horsepower Honda engine selling "as-is”. He gets the receipt that confirms he bought a five horsepower Honda engine lawn mower "as-is", and asks the clerk to deliver it to his house. When it arrives, it doesn't have the engine on it. BelizeBreeze just smiles and says "Oh, silly me. That's what I get for buying something 'as-is'."

 

[dallas702]

LOL.

email me through the site if it will let you.