Defraud of Training Contract?

[Newone95]

Hello I have a situation. A staffing agency wanted me to go into a 9 month training contract with them for $8,000 I told them I don't have that amount of money. They then told me that I could work the training off which I was alright with doing. In the contract I noticed that it said nothing about me working off the training, but it did say I will pay $8,000 over 9 months Bi-weekly which had no amount in that area. They told me that it is alright; that there must be a value for the training and that I will not be paying a dime. So I signed the contract thinking I'm not actually paying but working the training off. I have multiple recordings of this and one of the employees that worked there confirms this also. The agency only had four employees including me at the time.

I later found out they had no material for the training. They wanted me to also help them make the material for the training program that I was going through. I also found out that the one training me was not proficient in the program and will not be in the office majority of the time. The contract state that I will pay Bi-weekly, but I haven't paid anything and they never asked for a payment because both of us had an understanding that I would work off the training. From Oct to half of Jan I would be at the agency working/training for 5 days a week 7 hrs a day.

In mid-Jan, they set me up with a temp job with the State of AZ so I can make a little money on the side working 2 days out of the week for the state of AZ. I would work/train 3 days out of the week for the agency for free because I was working off the training. I asked them, if the state of AZ job would affect my contract and was told that it wouldn’t affect my training, which I have a recording of this also.

At the beginning, I started to find out the agency was really deceitful. I talked to an Air Force attorney about the situation they believed I was defrauded. The three I talked to agreed that something is not right with the agency and to finish the 9 month contract, then talk to a attorney. I also asked if I must finish all of the training, the attorneys told me no, but I need to keep working for them. Close to the end of the 9 month period, a lot of the training was not completed for many reasons, majority of them were on their part. I told them towards the end of the 9 months, I will be leaving. They then decided that since I didn’t complete all the training I owe them for all the work/training they invested into me. Out of the 10 items in the curriculum, I only received about 3 of them. During most of the training I had to figure it out on my own, but I knew I had to keep working for them so I would not have to pay the $8,000. At first they said I would owe them the $8,000 which I didn’t agree with, because of the fact I was working the training off and the lack of training. Then after they reviewed everything, they said I will owe them $2,000 for the parts of training that I received. Which I didn’t agree with for the same reasons above. So they decided to withhold both of my last two checks from the state of AZ and I would pay the difference. At first I didn’t agree with this cause I did what I was supposed to do. Then just to get it done and over with, I decided to pay them the remaining balance after the two checks which is $680. Now they are saying that they have to look over everything to make sure that there is nothing else and they want to meet on this Friday at 3:30 pm.

I saw another attorney that didn’t really give me that much advice about the situation. The advice given was more so “it is up to you what to do” and it seems like he didn’t really know what to do for the situation. He said that he thinks I breached the contract for not paying for the training. If I was under the impression that I just had to work off the training then I wouldn’t think I had breached the contract. The agency also said I didn’t provide any work which I have proof I did. The agency, to me, saw a military wife whose husband was getting out of the Air force that needed help and took full advantage of the situation. I would like a second opinion on the situation. Is this a example of Defraud and should I get another attorney? Thank you for your time.

 

[Shadowbunny]

Hello I have a situation. A staffing agency wanted me to go into a 9 month training contract with them for $8,000 I told them I don't have that amount of money. They then told me that I could work the training off which I was alright with doing. In the contract I noticed that it said nothing about me working off the training, but it did say I will pay $8,000 over 9 months Bi-weekly which had no amount in that area. They told me that it is alright; that there must be a value for the training and that I will not be paying a dime. So I signed the contract thinking I'm not actually paying but working the training off. I have multiple recordings of this and one of the employees that worked there confirms this also. The agency only had four employees including me at the time.

I later found out they had no material for the training. They wanted me to also help them make the material for the training program that I was going through. I also found out that the one training me was not proficient in the program and will not be in the office majority of the time. The contract state that I will pay Bi-weekly, but I haven't paid anything and they never asked for a payment because both of us had an understanding that I would work off the training. From Oct to half of Jan I would be at the agency working/training for 5 days a week 7 hrs a day.

In mid-Jan, they set me up with a temp job with the State of AZ so I can make a little money on the side working 2 days out of the week for the state of AZ. I would work/train 3 days out of the week for the agency for free because I was working off the training. I asked them, if the state of AZ job would affect my contract and was told that it wouldn’t affect my training, which I have a recording of this also.

At the beginning, I started to find out the agency was really deceitful. I talked to an Air Force attorney about the situation they believed I was defrauded. The three I talked to agreed that something is not right with the agency and to finish the 9 month contract, then talk to a attorney. I also asked if I must finish all of the training, the attorneys told me no, but I need to keep working for them. Close to the end of the 9 month period, a lot of the training was not completed for many reasons, majority of them were on their part. I told them towards the end of the 9 months, I will be leaving. They then decided that since I didn’t complete all the training I owe them for all the work/training they invested into me. Out of the 10 items in the curriculum, I only received about 3 of them. During most of the training I had to figure it out on my own, but I knew I had to keep working for them so I would not have to pay the $8,000. At first they said I would owe them the $8,000 which I didn’t agree with, because of the fact I was working the training off and the lack of training. Then after they reviewed everything, they said I will owe them $2,000 for the parts of training that I received. Which I didn’t agree with for the same reasons above. So they decided to withhold both of my last two checks from the state of AZ and I would pay the difference. At first I didn’t agree with this cause I did what I was supposed to do. Then just to get it done and over with, I decided to pay them the remaining balance after the two checks which is $680. Now they are saying that they have to look over everything to make sure that there is nothing else and they want to meet on this Friday at 3:30 pm.

I saw another attorney that didn’t really give me that much advice about the situation. The advice given was more so “it is up to you what to do” and it seems like he didn’t really know what to do for the situation. He said that he thinks I breached the contract for not paying for the training. If I was under the impression that I just had to work off the training then I wouldn’t think I had breached the contract. The agency also said I didn’t provide any work which I have proof I did. The agency, to me, saw a military wife whose husband was getting out of the Air force that needed help and took full advantage of the situation. I would like a second opinion on the situation. Is this a example of Defraud and should I get another attorney? Thank you for your time.

So you signed a contract saying you would pay $8k for training, but signed nothing that says you were to "work off" what you owed in 9 months? And you were close to finishing the 9 months and decided to leave. Now they want their money that you agreed to pay.

I'm curious why you've talked to 4 attorneys on this one matter -- are you not getting the answer you want? Because with the limited amount of information you've given, it sounds like you've obligated yourself to paying this money.

 

[Newone95]

So you signed a contract saying you would pay $8k for training, but signed nothing that says you were to "work off" what you owed in 9 months? And you were close to finishing the 9 months and decided to leave. Now they want their money that you agreed to pay.

I'm curious why you've talked to 4 attorneys on this one matter -- are you not getting the answer you want? Because with the limited amount of information you've given, it sounds like you've obligated yourself to paying this money.

Yes I signed a contract saying I will pay $8k. It was just a verbal agreement that I will not pay the $8k cause I will be working for them. Even in the recording they say you will not be paying a dime of the $8k. I have a recording of them saying this more than one time. So I was under the impression that I was not paying them cause I was working it off.

For the leaving part I told them I will be leaving after the 9 months they didn't even know I was near the end. When I told them I was two weeks from the end they said So we can't use you anymore so turn in your stuff and go home. Then they told me you owe us for the training and work we put into you. I worked for them as a Software Engineer which I have proof of all the work I did for them. I went to work at 8:30 am to 4:00 pm during that time I would get about 1 hr worth of training the rest was work. The one training me was not even there most of the time. Most of the training was YouTube videos and google searches that I had to look up myself.

At first it was one attorney but he wanted to show his coworkers to get another opinion so two more came in. Air Force attorneys can only give you legal advice and cannot represent you. So I had to see a civilian attorney. The civilian attorney didn't seem very knowledgeable most of the time he was on his phone or leaving the office which killed the time.

Someone told us about defraud cause they said you was paying for training that you didn't get whether it was working or paying. I was working for free for the company and they didn't even have the material for the training and the one training you was never really there. So to me it seems like when I told them I was done when the contract ended they got upset cause they were not going to get any more free work from me.

I do understand that I signed the paper saying I will pay the $8k, but is that right if they had no material, no one to really give me the training, the training I did get was one program along with YouTube and google, and they gave the impression which is recorded more then one time I am not paying a dime for the training.

 

[Dave1952]

I notice that you did not answer the Bunny's question.
Clearly you should end your relationship with these guys. Expect a lot of dunning letters. And perhaps angry phone calls. And no letter of recommendation. If they do take you to court you will have to prove that there was little training when compared to the work that you performed for free and that the value of that work exceeded the training fee.
What were you being trained to do?

 

[Newone95]

I notice that you did not answer the Bunny's question.
Clearly you should end your relationship with these guys. Expect a lot of dunning letters. And perhaps angry phone calls. And no letter of recommendation. If they do take you to court you will have to prove that there was little training when compared to the work that you performed for free and that the value of that work exceeded the training fee.
What were you being trained to do?

I'm sorry I thought I did answer all of the questions Bunny had. I'm not for sure what question I didn't answer. I am a Software Engineer for them that has done a lot of work for them which I can prove. When adding all the work I did for them up I found out that they got quite a deal, 3 months of the work I did for them would have been over the $8k amount easily and I did close to 9 months of work for them.

The reason for me asking about the situation is because it doesn't seem right.
It is like signing up for a $50 CPR class, but CPR instructor says "just help us set up and you don't have to pay". When it is time to start the class, they have not trained you on anything, but want you to create the documentation for the class and teach it. But then turn around and say you owe the $50 for the training that you had to do and figure out your own self.

 

[Dave1952]

Perhaps answering questions isn't your strong suit. You've been asked what State these events occurred in. You did not answer. Bunny asked you why, after receiving advice from 4 or 5 lawyers, you are here seeking advice from strangers. You did not answer. I asked what you were being trained to do. You did not answer.
Even so, I think that you may walk away from the contract. Suing you for $8K may be expensive, therefore I doubt that they will sue. It's possible that they may use Small Claims court but I've no idea what State the court would be in or what rules apply. This may be important
Remember that I've only heard your side and it's quite possible you are leaving important details out. Remember that signing contracts that do not describe the exact deal that you hope for is really dumb. If they do choose to sue you may very well lose since the contract does not contain any mention of "working off" the tuition.So, get your ducks in a row to show that you were indeed working-off the tuition. It's certainly puzzling to me that the agency did not collect your tuition prior to the start of the training

 

[Newone95]

Perhaps answering questions isn't your strong suit. You've been asked what State these events occurred in. You did not answer. Bunny asked you why, after receiving advice from 4 or 5 lawyers, you are here seeking advice from strangers. You did not answer. I asked what you were being trained to do. You did not answer.
Even so, I think that you may walk away from the contract. Suing you for $8K may be expensive, therefore I doubt that they will sue. It's possible that they may use Small Claims court but I've no idea what State the court would be in or what rules apply. This may be important
Remember that I've only heard your side and it's quite possible you are leaving important details out. Remember that signing contracts that do not describe the exact deal that you hope for is really dumb. If they do choose to sue you may very well lose since the contract does not contain any mention of "working off" the tuition.So, get your ducks in a row to show that you were indeed working-off the tuition. It's certainly puzzling to me that the agency did not collect your tuition prior to the start of the training

I was really not trying to start an argument on the forum, just trying to get some opinions from other people who might had the same problem. So if I offended you or anyone in any way, I do apologize. I did put that it was the state of Arizona, I just abbreviated it with AZ. The Air Force lawyers advised me to talk to a civilian lawyer which the civilian lawyer didn't seem interested in the case. When I asked, what can I do, he said You can fight them or pay it is up to you. I asked, do you think I have a chance, he said we would have to see when you make your claim. After that, he said I believe you would be looking about paying $4.600 for the whole case. Which I understood but he really didn't give me that much advice on should I fight or not and that cost me $375 for just that 1 hr. So I am seeking advice from strangers just to get an opinion from other people. I am used to the military where everything is structured and people treat others with respect. I also know it is dumb to sign a contract that does not have everything in it. The reason the agency didn't collect the money before the training is because we both agreed that I will work the training off which is what is said in the recording and by one of the employees that worked there. I do appreciate your help in this mater and the advice you all have given. Thank you once more.

 

[Dave1952]

You certainly did not offend me and I don't find you argumentative.
When you initially placed your post you were asked by the site what State is involved. You didn't answer. You did tell us that you were assigned work in Arizona. I'm going to assume that you signed the contract in Arizona and that the agency is based there. If true that's good news. The maximum for Small Claims in Arizona is $3500. I think this means that they will not sue you. It won't be worth the time and effort unless your employment or training contract has a provision to collect lawyer fees. Even then I think that they have a weak case of breach of contract based on what you have posted.
My advice is to walk away and ignore them unless they do sue you. Just get on with your life. And never sign a contract unless you understand what it says. Trying to sue them won't be worth your time and effort. Good luck

 

[Newone95]

You certainly did not offend me and I don't find you argumentative.
When you initially placed your post you were asked by the site what State is involved. You didn't answer. You did tell us that you were assigned work in Arizona. I'm going to assume that you signed the contract in Arizona and that the agency is based there. If true that's good news. The maximum for Small Claims in Arizona is $3500. I think this means that they will not sue you. It won't be worth the time and effort unless your employment or training contract has a provision to collect lawyer fees. Even then I think that they have a weak case of breach of contract based on what you have posted.
My advice is to walk away and ignore them unless they do sue you. Just get on with your life. And never sign a contract unless you understand what it says. Trying to sue them won't be worth your time and effort. Good luck

Thank you everyone for the help! You all have been great and I hope you all have a good 4th of July.