Defrauded $800. Bankruptcy as a defense.How should I proceed?

[NetBook]

I was defrauded $800 and the person is trying to hide behind bankruptcy. My understanding is that bankruptcy can't protect against fraud.

Can I continue to try to sue her or contact some kind of government authorities to get my money back since fraud was involved or am I locked into only dealing with her(out of state) local bankruptcy court?

Thanks.

 

[HomeGuru]

I was defrauded $800 and the person is trying to hide behind bankruptcy. My understanding is that bankruptcy can't protect against fraud.

Can I continue to try to sue her or contact some kind of government authorities to get my money back since fraud was involved or am I locked into only dealing with her(out of state) local bankruptcy court?

Thanks.

**A: explain**************...

 

[NetBook]

**A: explain**************...

Sorry, I am new to the forum. I don't understand your response ? Are you saying you want me to explain the case in more detail?

Thanks

 

[Who's Liable?]

Sorry, I am new to the forum. I don't understand your response ? Are you saying you want me to explain the case in more details
Thanks

Yes, we need facts.

Your definition of "fraud" may not meet the state's or federal defintion of "fraud" which would be the only way the monies in question would not be dischargeable.

 

[NetBook]

Yes, we need facts.

Your definition of "fraud" may not meet the state's or federal defintion of "fraud" which would be the only way the monies in question would not be dischargeable.

An Ebay seller sold very small item ( between $5-$15) to generate 100% feedback, then sold very large items ( between $430-$480) to many people without ever intending of sending the item, just to pocket the money and run.

The person never had the item and every person( including myself) never received the item. Everyone had to dispute the payments with the credit card comapny/ebay.

I unfortunately send the person a check and could not dispute the check.The person then told me the only way to get my money back from them was to send them more money so they could pay an insurance deductible. I have emailed the other people who bough thing from her and they told me that this person tried to scam them as well.

She maybe did this to 15 other people, not a single person has received the item and ebay/paypal has closed the account. She then created a long string of complex lies in order to keep me from going to the police until she declared bankruptcy.

I researched public records and this is the 3rd time she has declared bankruptcy in the last 10 years and multiple judgments against her.

She used false information to get me to send her money without ever having the item and with no intention of every delivering. Basically, it was like one of those Nigerian scams but dealing with someone in America( instead of Nigeria)

I am trying to get advice on my best course of action to get my money back after she has declared bankruptcy.

Please let me know what other questions you might have.

Thanks.

 

[Who's Liable?]

The dates are VERY close for her to be allowed to file a third BK.

Contact the DA.

 

[NetBook]

The dates are VERY close for her to be allowed to file a third BK.

Contact the DA.

The person who scammed in on Ebay lives across the country in another state.

Do I contact the DA in my state or in her state? ( or both?)

Does contacting the DA violate the bankruptcy letter that said that I am not suppose to take action to collect the money or else I might be penalized?

My logic on this is that bankruptcy does not protect cases of fraud and this is clearly a case of absolute fraud.

Thanks.

 

[swalsh411]

Who is this letter (supposedly) from and why in the world do you think it would prevent you from reporting the fraud?

if there are already multiple judgements against her then you go to the back of a long time. You might want to consider this a life lesson and move on.

 

[latigo]

Can I continue to try to sue her or contact some kind of government authorities to get my money back since fraud was involved or am I locked into only dealing with her (out of state) local bankruptcy court?

The opposite of talking is LISTENING! (A concept that you either missed growing up or don't agree with.) So once more.

1. YOU CANNOT SUE A DEBTOR IN BANKRUPTCY WHILE THE AUTOMATIC STAY ORDER IS IN PLACE! OR INSTIITUTE ANY PROCESS TO FURTHER YOU CREDITOR’S RIGHTS.

2. BEFORE YOU CAN BRING A SUIT AGAINST THE DEBTOR IN BANKRUPTCY YOU MUST COMMENCE AND ADVERSARY PROCEEDING FOR RELIEF FROM THE STAY ORDER. AND IN THE SAME BANKRUPTCY COURT WHERE THE DEBTOR’S PETITION IS PENDING.

3. NO GOVERNMENTAL AGENCY IS GOING TO PROVIDE ASSISTANCE IN COLLECTING FROM THE DEBTOR.
_______________________________

And none of the above is going to change no matter how many times you repeat the same questions! And please quit darting around in here like a crazed moth in stadium lights. It is getting old.

 

[Who's Liable?]

The opposite of talking is LISTENING! (A concept that you either missed growing up or don't agree with.) So once more.

1. YOU CANNOT SUE A DEBTOR IN BANKRUPTCY WHILE THE AUTOMATIC STAY ORDER IS IN PLACE! OR INSTIITUTE ANY PROCESS TO FURTHER YOU CREDITOR’S RIGHTS.

2. BEFORE YOU CAN BRING A SUIT AGAINST THE DEBTOR IN BANKRUPTCY YOU MUST COMMENCE AND ADVERSARY PROCEEDING FOR RELIEF FROM THE STAY ORDER. AND IN THE SAME BANKRUPTCY COURT WHERE THE DEBTOR’S PETITION IS PENDING.

3. NO GOVERNMENTAL AGENCY IS GOING TO PROVIDE ASSISTANCE IN COLLECTING FROM THE DEBTOR.
_______________________________

And none of the above is going to change no matter how many times you repeat the same questions! And please quit darting around in here like a crazed moth in stadium lights. It is getting old.

You're missing the point.

If the person is convicted of monetary felony fraud, they cannot discharge it in BK.

 

[cosine]

You're missing the point.

If the person is convicted of monetary felony fraud, they cannot discharge it in BK.

That means the OP will have to go for the criminal conviction to get the debt past BK. Now the question I have is whether that has to be done before the BK proceeds. If the criminal charges are pending during BK, would the discharge of the related debt amount be made (or be effectively) conditional on not getting a guilty conviction? E.g. if BK court goes ahead grants a discharge of everything, and then later there is a conviction, is that debt resurrected from the BK ashes? I think that is what the OP should be asking.

 

[tranquility]

Of course, such an "if" has not happened. (Nor do I think it will.)

 

[NetBook]

That means the OP will have to go for the criminal conviction to get the debt past BK. Now the question I have is whether that has to be done before the BK proceeds. If the criminal charges are pending during BK, would the discharge of the related debt amount be made (or be effectively) conditional on not getting a guilty conviction? E.g. if BK court goes ahead grants a discharge of everything, and then later there is a conviction, is that debt resurrected from the BK ashes? I think that is what the OP should be asking.

That is an extremely good question which I would need to get the answer to. This person has attempted to defraud over $15,000 within a few days selling spree on ebay and many other buyers. So I would hope this would raise to some level of concern from the authorities. I believe this person has make a career out of defrauding people and should be stopped.

This is also the 3rd time she is attempting to file bankruptcy in the past 10 years and she has several liens against her house and judgment issued against her.

I live thousands of miles away from her so it would be impossible to travel up to a bankruptcy court without spending more money in travel expensives than what she defrauded me for.

I called the clerks office and they offered absolutely no help on how the court system work.

Look, if someone steals your wallet off the street, then files bankruptcy the next day. You are not a general creditors like some utility company, you are a victim of a crime. There has to be different measures you can take other then what would apply to just a general commercial creditor who is dealing with a pass due bill. I have read that the people who wrote the bankruptcy laws did not intend it to be tool to allow criminal to get away with fraud.

Is a fraud victim = just another CREDITOR in the eyes of the law? How do I start the process of getting her convicted monetary felony fraud? Would that have to be initiated by a district attorney?

Is there anyone here that can help or knows who to contact to get answer to question like the one cosine asked?

Thanks.

 

[Who's Liable?]

That means the OP will have to go for the criminal conviction to get the debt past BK. Now the question I have is whether that has to be done before the BK proceeds. If the criminal charges are pending during BK, would the discharge of the related debt amount be made (or be effectively) conditional on not getting a guilty conviction? E.g. if BK court goes ahead grants a discharge of everything, and then later there is a conviction, is that debt resurrected from the BK ashes? I think that is what the OP should be asking.

I believe so yes, as creditors have overturned discharges after the fact, once they have found additional information that challenges the discharge.

 

[NetBook]

I believe so yes, as creditors have overturned discharges after the fact, once they have found additional information that challenges the discharge.

You are saying that in after the fact, a felony fraud conviction with ordered restitution was issued. The bankruptcy court would take that as new information and possible overturn the discharge?

That is the information I am really after.

The reason I am asking these question is because this person lives on the other side the country so if it would be difficult for me to physically appear before her local bankruptcy court. I am confidant that any judge or jury in the land would convict this person because it is such an absurd case of fraud.

Thanks for the reply.