Discrimination via Trespass Laws

[Robinhood]

Trespass Laws used to Discriminate !

Folks. We all know that laws are sometimes made to be broken? The trend as I see it today is to use Trespass Laws as a way to discriminate i.e. you walk into a PUBLIC domain grocery store. The manager decides he doesn't like the way you look. He claims some benign accusation and calls the police. The police tell you to leave the store and not come back. Fine up to this point? The problem is there is NEVER any closure or statute of limitations. In South Carolina the State trespass laws were amended to ELIMINATE the 6 mos. qualifier or quantifier to allow ABUSERS OF LEGAL PROCESS to INDEFINITELY keep you out of their businesses. Furthermore, they perpetrate all this WITHOUT any paperwork to hide any possible liability. The police in SC don't even issue Tresspass warnings. But if you show up at the business, they take you to jail? This is obviously covert and tacit and malicious abuse of legal process!!!!!!!!!!!!!As you legal professionals know, that was NOT the substantive intent of our constitution; furthermore, VAGUENESS is considered unconstitutional. This is a gaping hole and leaves the door wide open for white-collar discrimination. A Federal law needs to be enacted putting a cap or forcing a DEADLINE to any barring from establishments that are PUBLIC. Can anyone come up with a legal strategy to circumvent this clever recrimination of discriminatory practices.

[Edited by Robinhood on 11-28-2000 at 12:15 PM]

 

[HomeGuru]

One of the first questions that come up: was the property private or public?

Signed,
Friar Tuck

 

[Robinhood]

Reply to Friar Tuck

Friar Tuck,
The store is a well established Wall-Street concern that is public. However, the police did quip conveniently that, "This is private property and the manager can do anything he wants ! Nahhh, nah, nah, nahhh, nah. However, the store is quite public which has to bare a certificate/license showing as much. The problem is ignorance and prejudice knows no limits. Get it?

 

[HomeGuru]

No, I dont't get it. What is your point and state a real specific example so we can attempt to help you.

 

[Robinhood]

I just did. I thought. Ask away? Who is we by the way? Home Guru. Shouldn't that be home Guru's?

 

[wilbergris]

You have a misunderstanding of what "public" is. Unless the store is owned by a governmental body then it is private and they can keep you away. Your right to go into that store is equal to my right to post messages on this board. If freeadvice.com deletes this post, I can't sue them for first amendment violations because it is their private website. The same goes with the grocery store and you trespassing.

 

[Robinhood]

Wilbergris. Your wrong. Grocery Stores and other stores "requesting permission" from municipalities, and states to operate their franchise, store, etc. to serve the general "public" agree to specific regulations and guidelines. That is why when you buy meat in a grocery store that it is US Grade A inspected. That is also why they post a GRADE. Similarly, they also agree to be regulated on how they treat their customers - "equal protection under the law." Grocery stores don't sell private memberships. For you to try and conveniently miscontrue the "substantive intent" of the law is idiocracy. Furthermore, if you FreeAdvice denied you access to their site because you were an idiot - that would be discrimination. Hope your not kicked out of any stores for being an idiot; perhaps you may not be able to survive?

 

[wilbergris]

You are refering to "public access" which applies to shopping malls with common areas that resemble "town squares". The property itself is still privately owned and there are Supreme Court cases that show that such First Amendment rights as handing out leaflets and holding protests are not protected in shopping malls and stores. There are restrictions involved in the use of public access areas which can be regulated by the ownership.

I'll just conveniently ignore the "idiot" part of your last statement. I wasn't the one thown out of a grocery store.

 

[Robinhood]

Wilbergis. No I am not referring to public access. Do you have Attention Deficit Disorder. Nor am I referring to public parking, or public telephones, or public restrooms. What I am referring to is business that buy liscenses from the State and local goverments to operate their business under strict guidelines which includes NO DISCRIMINATION for whatever reason. If a manager doesn't allow you into his store or banishes you indefinitely without giving you warning or written notice as to the cause, then this is effectively using Trespass laws to discriminate. They don't even take the time to issue a Tresspass warning in South Carolina because they are so confident of their ability to manipulate and "abuse legal process."

Furthermore, I am not talking about "elective" rights like handing out leaflets at shopping malls - sir. I am talking about "implied contractural rights" of the entity offering their services to the general public then selecting ways to bar certain individual from it. Even if you are barred, due process demands conditions on which to return. Afterall, if you are arrested for stealing a candy bar from a store, that doesn't give the store to ban you for life now does it. Vagueness is unconstitutional.

You can "conveniently" ignore whatever you want. You obviously are conveniently ignoring the intent of my message here. As a matter of fact, your answer detracts into a completely differnt realm of law? Your answers are diversionary, general, and inconclusive. If the shoe fits, wear it.

 

[wilbergris]

Fine, I'll ditch my argument because I was getting slightly off topic, although I'd love to hear how US meat grading has anything to do with this whole thing.

By law, the store cannot discriminate on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, ancestry, sex, age, disability, or status as a disabled veteran or veteran of the Vietnam era. This is based on Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, and the Americans With Disabilities Act of 1990. But since you didn't claim to fall under any of these categories and apparently are just guilty of looking like a freak, then the current laws do not protect you.

One question. If this store is treating you so badly, why do you wish to spend your hard earned money there?

 

[David J. Miller]

Kids, kids, kids... If you can't stop your bickering, you'll each have to go to your rooms. Now kiss and make up.

 

[Robinhood]

You are right. I don't fall under any of these categories. Apparently, you fall for to many of them. I notice you are particularly verbose on the Vietnam aspect of your statutory rambling. Could that be why everyone looks like a freak to you? or is that geek, gook, spook, coo-coo ka joo.

What does meat grading have to do with it? It is an analogy, a metaphor, a paragon, an anecdotal passage designed to be illustrative for a mind that in apparently unable to grasp the context of a passage without extraneous examples. I believe Christ talked in parables - for example of course. Uh, lets see... Meat grading is an excellent example (paragon - look it up) of the type of invisible force and implied rights that protect us as we go shopping merrily on our way. Apparently, SOME OF US are more oblivious to these UNSEEN FORCES and prefer to PIG OUT on our own self-indulgence and ability to recall the "Bill of Right" from high school. You are the one that talks in language like passing out leaflets at shopping malls and public access when my concerns are consumer rights and civil rights (which YOU mentioned below.) No, thank goodness, I don't fall into any of these categories. Nor have I had lunch with O.J. Simpson. I guess I live a deprived sheltered life. Maybe you'll make the grade someday. In the mean time, I'd rather look like a freak, than give uninspired, researched, and banal answers like yours that can only come from the mind of a true irresponsible, self-indulgent, boring, slightly off FREAK.
But, I guess its' better than being a voyeur like David J. Miller. At least he knows his middle initial.

Why do I go back to the store? I don't idiot. Read the original message and read between the lines. I was banned indefinitely after shopping there for months without warning and without incident or due process. I filed suit.

I bet that just makes your insatiable meat eating mind just juice knowing Robinhood was banned. Come on, add insult to injury - it what's you do best. Put out fire with gasoline. Be a rebel without a cause. Ad Hominem, blame the victim.

Don't use the collective wisdom and focus of generation gone by the derive logical and compassionate answers. Be an anarchist, a muck-raker, a babbling idiot. Then when someone sobers you into reality - call them a freak. Then make amends with yourself and go online and give some more uninspired and inconclusive answers. I'm just wasting time afterall, apparently. Go blow some more crack.

 

[wilbergris]

How nice of you to twist the meanings of things I say in order to boost your ego by telling everyone that I am an idiot. I did not say that you go back to the store, I said that you "wish" to go to the store. A big difference.

Sorry that I am uninspiring to you. I am an intelligent person who lacks good communication skills. I tended to spend my time in school studying math and science instead of vocabulary and literature. I'm glad to see that you are proficient with 25 and 50 cent words. I first posted because I thought maybe you were one of those people trapped in the fantasy that America is truly a free country. You proved by your ultra-liberal ramblings that you may still be. However, I continued to argue with you because I saw it as an opportunity to try and improve my communication skills. But it looks like I failed miserably in that excercise. Congratulations, you kicked my ass, and maybe I deserved it.

As far as your case with the grocery store goes, I hate lawsuits. I would exhaust all other avenues like writing a letter to the owner of the store or maybe a district manager, and be nice about it. The manager could have a problem and not you. Don't flame me on these suggestions because you have given me no details as far as what you have done already to remedy this problem.

Finally, no I don't view everyone as a freak. I was a punk rocker who rode a skateboard from 1985-1992. NOBODY liked having me in their store. Back then it was a lot tougher to be different. I've had police officers threaten to throw me out of the whole TOWN, let alone a store! It's not like today where people are encouraged to view differences positively. Back then, as horribly as I was dressed or wore my hair, I was never thrown out of a store for just shopping. That's why I have so much trouble with your story.

If you truly have been wronged, I hope you get justice. I also hope that other people on this board with more experience jump in to help you. I've said all I have to say.

 

[David J. Miller]

That's it you called me a voyeur. I'm calling my dad to beat-up your dad.

 

[Robinhood]

Boy, Wilbergis. That sure is a well-structured narrative for someone who specialized in math. Where I from, that is called sandbagging. I don't see a single grammatical or sentence structure error. Are you sure you are not fooling yourself.

Twist the meaning of things - me? You have already apologized twice for being wrong. Now you accuse me again of twisting the meaning of things. Are you bipolar. You are not even man enough to apologize or take criticism without complaining IMMEDIATELY after accepting blame or fault? Is "idiot" a 25 or 50 cent word. I wasn't aware that YOU had the corner on the market? Just minutes ago, you claimed you lacked communication skills; then didn't miss a period? Now, you claim to know the value of words also. So, which is it my fine tarred and feathered friend? Of course, all that math an science allowed you at least to distinguish between 25 and 50. Rocket science.

I spent my hard earned money there BEFORE I got kicked out. Do a search on ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder.) I didn't tell everyone you are an idiot. You are the one that wrote, "Unless the store is owned by a governmental body then it is private and they can keep you away." That is idiotic and I stand by it. Learn to take responsibility for your idiotic musings. In short, think before you speak oh great geyser one. Gush. Gush.

I guess you do hate lawsuits since a firm application of logic is a prerequisite. However, I might add. Move to South Carolina because when THEY are backed into a corner and are wrong - they just CHEAT and threaten you and harrass you. If you don't like being wrong EVER, move to South Carolina. Mediocrity and incentive to sin and impale yourself on their feeble pointed arguments are the ONLY choices available. They simply remove opportunity knowing full well that EVENTUALLY you have to make a decision between the lesser of the evils. So either way, they win. It is COMPLETE corruption and dumbing down.

America IS a truly free country. It just experiences periods of transition and unrest. But, the more people who start THINKING and equivocating on right and wrong like you, the harder it makes on people who are trying to salvage the vestige of freedom that remains. Don't get mad at me. Get mad at yourself, the media, and the politicians who have made you compromise your belief and value system to break you down. Life IS a hard lesson - period. Ultimately, there is no right and wrong per se. However, we can make the best possible guess and apply a semblance of order and balance to the chaos. But that takes effort and intelligence. But, of courst that is my "ultra-liberal ramblings" as you put it - just before you admitted you were wrong.

The manager of the grocery store does have a problem. He mortgages off his own sovereignty and yours for a chance at popularity with the little girls and boys in the store. The guy is a lunatic. He is the kind that would trade his own mother for a race car. These are the type of people that are promoted in South Carolina - seriously. Logically, if you put an idiot in charge, the underlings are bound to get dumbed down by osmosis- the Peter Principle.

I hope I get justice as well. But, that is just the tip of the ice berg. What good is temporary justice in a flawed system of chaos, intimidation, extortion, and conspiracy. They really are only interested in abusing the meek, and jading you against your own self worth. They have nothing in place to increment the emotions and graduate responsibility and reward day to day optimism. South Carolina is a bunch of "bent" self-righteous pig-people who are going to impose a perverted agenda on you in a slow syrup poisoning purely to try and assuage their own sordid and guilty conscience. They don't aspire to excellence because they thrive on and accentuate anything diverse. It's just one big "crap shoot" being run by a bunch of bookies who really believe they are fooling somebody. They can't stand to look their own self in the mirror, and when you call their hand, the threaten you.

I've said all I am going to say to - bubba. Hail, Clinton. Hail, Ceasar. Heil Hitler - apparently. It's easier than thinking for yourself.