Do I have to re-sign and re-date my Pour-Over Will each time I make amendments to my revocable Living Trust?

[zddoodah]

I'm questioning the answer.

If you don't believe what your lawyer told you, you may want to seek out another lawyer. AFAIK, no one here is a trust/estate lawyer admitted to practice in Indiana.

 

[LdiJ]

hi tm,

i wasnt arguing about having new dates and new docs for the pour over will and affidavit. but i disagree with your first sentence, at least in the way that i am reading it. because an amendment and the trust are never gonna have the same dates on it. the amendment has its own date on it, and then refers to the ABC Trust dated on such and such a date.

personally, i do not think that a pour-over will needs to be redone, because there is an amendment to the trust. i dont really see the logic to that, at all. an amendment does not change the dates of the trust, so the will points to the exact same instrument, before and after the amendment is created.

the pour-over will just dumps any assets that remain in the estate to the trust. you may be able to create some obscure example in which changing the date of the pour-over will is helpful. but it certainly would not apply to most situations.

with regards to affidavits, i dont think they are a good idea, and i never use them. i dont want 2 documents with "supposedly" the same info on them. if an entity wants to know what powers the trustee has, there is only 1 document that shows that - the trust itself.

i have had many entities make me fill in their own form, in order to business with them. which is fine.

from a privacy standpoint, i place all my beneficiary stuff on 1 page, by itself. whatever other pages they want to see, i simply send them pages from the trust, itself. most entities want the title page, with the naming of the trust, its revocability, etc. the names of the trustee, and successors, if pertinent. and the powers. and the signature, notary page.

so if i am opening a bank acct, the bank is gonna want to know that i have banking powers. similarly for any other type of business, they want to know that i have the power to do things in that business line.

you already know that i am a stickler for trust protection. on my trust, i place the name of the trust with the date on it, in the title area. for example. the name of this trust is the ABC Trust, notarized on march 16, 2023. this date must match the notary date on page 25. i print it out a few days ahead of time, and make sure that i get it notarized on that very date. i print, sign, finger print and date EVERY SINGLE PAGE on the trust document. i betcha as many trusts as you have seen in your life, you have never seen one with all of that on every single page - LOL

You do realize that you are arguing against what the OP's attorney said was required/necessary?...and rather firmly as a matter of fact? Since you are not an attorney, and don't even live in the same state as the OP that really isn't such a good idea.

 

[Trusting_Soul]

To TrustUser's point, the name of the Trust is one of the reasons I questioned the answer from the law firm. The Pour-Over Will and the Affidavit of Trust make reference to the legal name of the Trust and that legal name ends with "and any amendments thereto". Wouldn't this mean that the originally executed documents would have covered any amendments? Otherwise, what's the purpose of having that qualifier?

 

[TrustUser]

i didnt really say anything about it, at first. only when it was stated to me.

but i gave my opinions, and REASONS behind them. i am perfectly happy to listen to why my opinions are in error.

but just because someone with a law degree says something, i dont necessarily believe it. i have a lot of trust knowledge

 

[Trusting_Soul]

To TrustUser's point, the name of the Trust is one of the reasons I questioned the answer from the law firm. The Pour-Over Will and the Affidavit of Trust make reference to the legal name of the Trust and that legal name ends with "and any amendments thereto". Wouldn't this mean that the originally executed documents would have covered any amendments? Otherwise, what's the purpose of having that qualifier?

 

[TrustUser]

To TrustUser's point, the name of the Trust is one of the reasons I questioned the answer from the law firm. The Pour-Over Will and the Affidavit of Trust make reference to the legal name of the Trust and that legal name ends with "and any amendments thereto". Wouldn't this mean that the originally executed documents would have covered any amendments? Otherwise, what's the purpose of having that qualifier?

hi trusting, i did not originally intend to make any comments about it, because it is not a big deal. i would advise you to go ahead and do as they ask, if you want to do business with them. it doesnt hurt.

 

[quincy]

To TrustUser's point, the name of the Trust is one of the reasons I questioned the answer from the law firm. The Pour-Over Will and the Affidavit of Trust make reference to the legal name of the Trust and that legal name ends with "and any amendments thereto". Wouldn't this mean that the originally executed documents would have covered any amendments? Otherwise, what's the purpose of having that qualifier?

You really should be addressing your questions to your attorneys, Trusting_Soul. Your attorneys have access to all of the documents and can tell you why your documents are worded as they are.

Remember, these attorneys work for you. Don’t hesitate to ask them to explain to you whatever it is you don’t understand.

 

[Taxing Matters]

To TrustUser's point, the name of the Trust is one of the reasons I questioned the answer from the law firm. The Pour-Over Will and the Affidavit of Trust make reference to the legal name of the Trust and that legal name ends with "and any amendments thereto". Wouldn't this mean that the originally executed documents would have covered any amendments? Otherwise, what's the purpose of having that qualifier?

It's all about how well drafted each of the documents are and what simple steps can be taken to reduce the risk of challenges to the trust (or will, or whatever other estate planning method you use) after your death. Without reading your trust, the amendment, and the case law (court decisions) in the state whose law governs the trust, I cannot say if there might be hole there that someone might be able to exploit. The step your attorneys asked you to do to re-sign everything takes only a couple of minutes and might help reduce the risk of a challenge later, even if the risk without doing it might be low. So I don't see a downside to it, but a potential upside. Estate planning and probate attorneys tend to be rather cautious in this regard simply because they've seen the mess that can occur when the documents are not well done.