Does a TRO and temporary orders void the original order?

[akb0925]

It doesn't have to. You are required to supply the form in order to allow him to take the deduction. The court won't be happy if you try to play that game.


The IRS doesn't provide the form. You're supposed to provide it without him asking, and this is supposed to happen before he files. In fact, you can fill out the form to cover future years as well. Here's a copy of the form, for reference: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8332.pdf
As an aside, in the instance above, the term is "defraud", not "fraud".

If you simply file your taxes correctly, then it will trigger a letter requesting more information. You can then provide that information and you would get the EIC.

I came here to ask a question about previous orders being void by a TRO and indicated I assumed that was the case and filed for all kids. I never once indicated that I was not going to file an amended return if that was not the case, I am the parent who does the right thing. I am simply answering questions that are asked of me, there is no reason for hasty comments.

But to reply to your statement: When someone files their taxes, correctly, by click the box indicating your child has not lived with you for 6 months of the year it advises that the form 8332 is needed to be signed by the custodial parent and mailed in with taxes and provides a link for that parent.

 

[Ohiogal]

Thank You. Everything BUT the taxes were changed/discussed in the temp orders the past 18 months. So I guess now the question is... if he files as quickly as he can and never has gotten the proper documents to claim the kids (form 8332) do I have a leg to stand on since I just filed for all 4? He is frauding the IRS and not claiming them the correct way. I know this means nothing but he has zero financial responsibilities (no mortgage, rent, utilities, etc.), I do not think it is right that he has profited off these kids but does nothing the past 5 years to improve his living situation for himself or the kids. I really do not think it's right that he has pocketed all the stimulus money. I don't want to be held in contempt and go to jail for filing taxes but he has never had me sign that form so he is in the wrong as well IMO.

Then the orders from the original still stand. And no, he is not "frauding" the IRS. He is following the court order. He may be doing it improperly but you can face contempt for claiming all four children. You are playing a childish game of tit for tat. You should be acting like the adult. He pays you child support which is contributing to the support of his children.
Congrats, you also now have unclean hands. He pocketed the stimulus money for the two children he claimed. If you had an issue, you should have requested the court change those orders.

 

[Ohiogal]

I came here to ask a question about previous orders being void by a TRO and indicated I assumed that was the case and filed for all kids. I never once indicated that I was not going to file an amended return if that was not the case, I am the parent who does the right thing. I am simply answering questions that are asked of me, there is no reason for hasty comments.

But to reply to your statement: When someone files their taxes, correctly, by click the box indicating your child has not lived with you for 6 months of the year it advises that the form 8332 is needed to be signed by the custodial parent and mailed in with taxes and provides a link for that parent.

Or you can attach a court order that states you can claim them. You should have asked PRIOR to filing.

 

[Ohiogal]

Lets just be clear, my orders do NOT indicate nor state anything about a form 8332. All they indicate is dad claims two per year and mom claims two, it does not state anything about me needing to supply him with any documents. His part, per federal law, is once he files his taxes he is to be honest and not fraud the IRS by checking "no" on the box asking if the kids lived with him more than 6 months of the year it would then supply him with the 8332 form that he would need to give to me to sign waiving my right. I would sign it and he would mail it in with his tax return. Instead he indicates they lived with him 6 months or more of the year, which is not true, therefore bypasses the step of needing me to fill out that form.

He is NOT frauding the IRS based upon just his filing. How do you know what he states on his taxes? Seriously. How do you know? Have you seen his taxes? Every year I filed taxes with my daughter I stated the truth and filed online. Never took the EIC and NEVER needed an 8332. You are coming across as petty and childish and vindictive.

 

[Ohiogal]

I came here to ask a question about previous orders being void by a TRO and indicated I assumed that was the case and filed for all kids. I never once indicated that I was not going to file an amended return if that was not the case, I am the parent who does the right thing. I am simply answering questions that are asked of me, there is no reason for hasty comments.

But to reply to your statement: When someone files their taxes, correctly, by click the box indicating your child has not lived with you for 6 months of the year it advises that the form 8332 is needed to be signed by the custodial parent and mailed in with taxes and provides a link for that parent.

You are the parent who does the right thing except when you don't. And again, you are wrong about that. I file electronically every year and have since 2006. Never once was I asked to provide form 8332 even though I answered every question honestly. Go figure. You just want something to yell and holler about.

 

[bcr229]

I would file an amended return ASAP and then retain a family law attorney to help make the temporary orders permanent, with the changes made for insurance coverage and claiming all four kids on the tax return.

Do you know if your ex is still drinking?

 

[Taxing Matters]

I am not sure if the TRO and temp orders make the original void and that is my question.

There is no universal answer to that. The details of the new orders matter a great deal. They may say the previous orders are revoked entirely, they may just modify some parts of the previous orders and leave the others in place. It's possible that he still has the right to claim the exemptions for the two kids.

Yeah, because he didn't properly file his taxes by having me sign the form 8332 I missed out on around $1500.00 per year because I was not able to file EIC for the other two kids. So around $6000.00 the past 4 years I have not gotten because he didn't have me sign form 8332.

That's on you, not him. You could have filed the returns and claimed the EIC as you were entitled to do. The IRS would then have matched your returns with your ex's returns and sent letters to you both asking you to justify your position on the return. Once you showed that you were the custodial parent (as defined by the tax law — the parent that had the kid for more than six months of the year) the IRS would then have upheld your claim to the EIC and he'd have been dinged for not attaching the Form 8332 to justify his claim to the exemption. You may still amend your 2017 and later returns to claim the EIC you didn't get, though you have just a month left to amend the 2017.

Lets just be clear, my orders do NOT indicate nor state anything about a form 8332. All they indicate is dad claims two per year and mom claims two, it does not state anything about me needing to supply him with any documents.

It would be better had the orders expressly required you to provide him the Form 8332, sure. When a family law attorney consults a tax attorney for help in drafting these settlements (as they should) that's exactly what happens. But here's the thing. Even though it doesn't expressly say that you must provide the Form 8332, it is implied that you will cooperate to enable the terms of the order to be carried out. So he could still seek to enforce the order and have you provide the Form 8332. I don't practice in your state but in the states I"m familiar with the result of not expressly ordering you to provide the Form 8332 means that has to go through two steps before you are found in contempt. Had the order expressly required you to provide the Form 8332 he could move immediately for contempt. But since it doesn't, he likely first must move for a specific order requiring you to provide the Form 8332, which the court will almost certainly grant so it's better if you just provide it without the need to go to court. If you don't provide it after the court orders it, though, that's when he could bring the contempt action. I'd not be surprised that it works much the same in your state.

You claimed the exemptions for all 4 kids for 2020, apparently. You might be in violation of the court order by doing that as now you are not only just not giving him the 8332, you are now claiming kids that the order expressly says he may claim, unless the more recent orders override that. I strongly suggest you take a copy of all the orders to a family law attorney to find out if you were entitled to claim all 4 kids now. If the answer is no, you'll need to amend your return to fix that.

Also, I recommend you see a tax professional about emending those earlier returns to get the EIC that you didn't claim for earlier years.

 

[Taxing Matters]

Then the orders from the original still stand. And no, he is not "frauding" the IRS. He is following the court order.

It's impossible to know if there is tax fraud by the ex occurring here without seeing his returns. However, what is apparent is that he committing at least perjury on the returns by claiming to have physical custody of them for more than half the year, which is the only way he gets the exemptions without have the Form 8332, when he clearly did not have that physical custody. He should be asking her for the Form 8332 so that he can do his returns properly and so in my book he's at least partly to blame for the problems created here. Yes, it'd be great if she gave him the Form 8332 without the need for him to ask, but it seems like he simply goes ahead and files the returns early in the filing season without even making a single attempt at asking for the Form 8332, and that's simply wrong. Now, she could still have filed her returns to get all the benefits she was entitled to get, she'd just have had to deal with the IRS inquiry later, which would not have been a problem if he had filed properly with the Form 8332.

 

[LdiJ]

It's impossible to know if there is tax fraud by the ex occurring here without seeing his returns. However, what is apparent is that he committing at least perjury on the returns by claiming to have physical custody of them for more than half the year, which is the only way he gets the exemptions without have the Form 8332, when he clearly did not have that physical custody. He should be asking her for the Form 8332 so that he can do his returns properly and so in my book he's at least partly to blame for the problems created here. Yes, it'd be great if she gave him the Form 8332 without the need for him to ask, but it seems like he simply goes ahead and files the returns early in the filing season without even making a single attempt at asking for the Form 8332, and that's simply wrong. Now, she could still have filed her returns to get all the benefits she was entitled to get, she'd just have had to deal with the IRS inquiry later, which would not have been a problem if he had filed properly with the Form 8332.

It does appear that he may have been claiming EIC for the two children the court orders allow him to claim...and perhaps HOH status as well. It would clearly be fraudulent for him to claim HOH or EIC for those children, as they do not primarily reside with him.

 

[Taxing Matters]

It does appear that he may have been claiming EIC for the two children the court orders allow him to claim...and perhaps HOH status as well. It would clearly be fraudulent for him to claim HOH or EIC for those children, as they do not primarily reside with him.

We don't know what exact benefits he claimed on his return, as that has not been stated. Indeed, I doubt the OP knows that as it is unlikely that the OP has had access to the actual returns he filed. And I'm not going to assume what he did based on the incomplete information we have here. If he claimed benefits he was not entitled to claim then there would be potential fraud there. But as I said in the first sentence of my previous reply, it's impossible to know if there is tax fraud here without seeing the returns that he filed.

 

[Zigner]

If he claimed benefits he was not entitled to claim then there would be potential fraud there. But as I said in the first sentence of my previous reply, it's impossible to know if there is tax fraud here without seeing the returns that he filed.

If the guy is as uninformed about tax matters as the OP is, then there likely was no intent to commit fraud (IMO)

 

[LdiJ]

If the guy is as uninformed about tax matters as the OP is, then there likely was no intent to commit fraud (IMO)

While that is true, its hammered home pretty well in online software, and tax professionals seriously hammer it home.

 

[Zigner]

While that is true, its hammered home pretty well in online software, and tax professionals seriously hammer it home.

So is the EIC, yet the OP hasn't claimed it as she should have.

I don't know if I mentioned this before, but I have to wonder why the OP worried/worries at all about how her ex is filing. She should have been filing appropriately for her situation this entire time.

 

[Taxing Matters]

If the guy is as uninformed about tax matters as the OP is, then there likely was no intent to commit fraud (IMO)

I agree, which is why I said if he claimed benefits he was not entitled to claim then there is potential fraud there. When it comes to benefits for low income persons like EIC I have seen a number of people who were simply confused or clueless about the exact requirements for them. Unfortunately for non tax people the rules for this stuff are not as simple as they should be.

 

[LdiJ]

So is the EIC, yet the OP hasn't claimed it as she should have.

I don't know if I mentioned this before, but I have to wonder why the OP worried/worries at all about how her ex is filing. She should have been filing appropriately for her situation this entire time.

Here is the thing Zig...

The parent who is not entitled to claim EIC (or other tax attributes) hurries up and files electronically as soon as they can and beats the parent who is really entitled to claim EIC. Therefore the entitled parent's return rejects electronically because the dependents have already been claimed for all tax attributes, including EIC.

If the entitled parent is using a tax professional their options to resolve the situation will be explained to them. If they follow their options they will eventually get the EIC they are entitled to receive, but it could take months to receive it.

If they are online filing, on their own, they likely have no idea that they have any options or how to exercise them if they realize that there are options.

This is something that I deal with on a regular basis. I have even testified in family court many times about this issue.