Driving While Suspended...Need Help Please

[sutliffhl21]

I live in Pennsylvania. Here is the story. I had a suspended license for over a year. A few months ago, I applied and got an Occupational Privelage License. (OLL). It was my day off and I Passed the cop in the opposite direction. Evidently, the cop turned around. By the time he caught up to me, I was already in the other town jurisdiction. To give you a better picture, it was 1:40 am, rainy and foggy, and he "identified" my vehicle in the rain and fog during pitch black nite. On the written warning card he wrote "Speeding/Seat Belt". Now, how can he get a speed going the opposite direction at 1:40 in the morning? The real reason he pulled me over was because he thought that I didnt have a license. But what he didnt realize was that I actually did have work license. Now it was my day off and I was not supposed to be driving, but how did he know that? Did he know that it was my day off, and for that matter, did he even know that I had a work license, or was he assuming that I didnt have a license? In that event, can his probable cause be argued? And to put the icing on the cake he put the wrong plate number down on the citation. My plate is FBFXXXX and he wrote "EBFXXXX". Could that be a cause for having the ticket having to be re-filed again? While the officer was catching up to me, he DID lose sight of my vehicle for over 2 1/2 miles and he couldnt have possibly seen me driving that time of the night. Anyone have any suggestions? Could an attorney have a good case with this?

 

[LawGirl10]

If he passed you going the opposite direction and then turned on you, it is very possible to identify the car that he passed and turned on. When they are passing you, they look at the color/make of the vehicle and anything that sticks out as distinguishing. Just because it was 01:40 in the morning does not mean that he could not see the type of car you were driving. His headlights will illuminate your car as he is passing you and as he is turning on you, he gets an even better view.

As for the radar, yes, he can get a speed on you when he is traveling in the opposite direction. That is how the radar is designed to work. It acquires a target (your vehicle) and measures the rate at which the target closes on the radar: that gives him the reading for the speed.

If he lost sight of you, he would have to testify that he identified your vehicle as he passed you (mainly information about the color, possible make and size), if there were any other vehicles in the vicinity that could have been the vehicle instead of yours, etc. The officer doesn't have to keep you in sight the entire time, but it does help his case if he does.

I can't tell you the real reason he pulled you over, only he can. He may have noticed your vehicle speeding to begin with or just decided to turn on you to check out your driving (which he is entitled to do). If the plates on your vehicle were registered to you (or you and someone else), they can pull up your driving record and if it is suspended, they can pull you over. I have seen some cases where if that was the only reason they pulled you over (because the registered owner was suspended), it was challenged because there is no guarantee the registered owner is actually the one driving the vehicle. I have seen a case like that go both ways, depending on the case law and the jurisdiction.

As for the wrong plate number, only the court can tell you what they would do in that situation. In my jurisdiction, the officer would just have to re-file it and testify that he pulled over the correct vehicle. The ticket would not be thrown out here. I can't say what your court would do.

 

[sutliffhl21]

Thank you for your reply. I the state of Pennsylvania, only state police is able to use radar...not locals. The locals have to use Vascar or Robic. And I did in fact have a work license, but he didnt know that. So if he was under the assumption that I had a suspended license, and if I had a work license, would that invadidate his probable cause? And secondly, because he didnt get a plate number when he passed me, how could he definatley say it was me? And because he lost sight of me, could that have anything to do with it? And in pennsylvania, a cop has 30 days to cite a violation. If he has to re-file the citation, it will be after 30 days...does that mean the statuate of limitations will be lapsed..meaning a dissmissal? Any input would be appreciated.

 

[LawGirl10]

Thank you for your reply. I the state of Pennsylvania, only state police is able to use radar...not locals. The locals have to use Vascar or Robic. And I did in fact have a work license, but he didnt know that. So if he was under the assumption that I had a suspended license, and if I had a work license, would that invadidate his probable cause? And secondly, because he didnt get a plate number when he passed me, how could he definatley say it was me? And because he lost sight of me, could that have anything to do with it? And in pennsylvania, a cop has 30 days to cite a violation. If he has to re-file the citation, it will be after 30 days...does that mean the statuate of limitations will be lapsed..meaning a dissmissal? Any input would be appreciated.

You are welcome.

I'm not sure why a local police department would be prohibited from using a radar (not sure what you mean by that, no money? no access to training? or is it possible that they do use it but the public thinks they dont?). Even if they did not have radar, vascar would give them the same result. It is just a different method.

If, by chance, he did run your plates and got your driving record that said it was suspended when it was not, it is still a valid stop. As long as the officer reasonably believed the information was valid (relying on a reading from the bureau of motor vehicles is considered reasonable), then the stop was valid if that is the reason for the stop.

As for the plate number: it is hard to see a plate number when you are turning on a vehicle, but it is possible. I used to do it all the time. However, it is not required for the officer to prevail in court. As long as the officer can testify that he observed enough about your vehicle to know it was one in the same, and there was nothing else that happened that would call that into question, then they will probably accept that testimony in court. If there were other cars in the vicinity and one that was very much like yours, that might call the stop into question. However, if that was not the case and you try to say it was, you are going to lose on that point. They will believe the officer.

As for the re-filing. That is permissible. You shoud still call the court to see how they handle mistakes on tickets. Every court is different.

 

[sutliffhl21]

Actually, in Pennsylvania it has been pushed through the state court and they lose all the time. Locals are not allowed to use radar, and believe it or not, its in the Pa Vehicle code,lol. Anyway, I was passing the cop in my car as he was driving the opposite way. I find it hard to believe that he could pinpoint the actual speed by just observing as he was driving, that would make him a human radar gun. I am driving an old ex-cop car that is blue, needless to say its honestly not hard to pick the thinng out. But, when I passed him, he didnt immidiatley pull over and turn around either. It was about another 2 1/2 miles before he caught up to me and even then, the stop was initiated in the other bordering jurisdiction, which is covered by the state police. Now, I know that he knew it was my car, but there are other blue caprice's and how did he absolutley know it was mine without getting a plate number, and on the written warning card he gave me, it said "Speeding". If he wrote that on the warning card, would that HAVE to be his probable cause that he presents in court?

 

[fedcop110]

Lawgirl is correct. Whether it was doppler radar, Vascar, or Lidar, the officer would be able to obtain your speed opposing directions. The officer may have pulled you over for "speed too fast for conditions" or some similar statute, which does not require a speed measuring device. As lawgirl stated, only the officer can tell you why he actually initiated the stop, but I would be willing to bet that whatever he says it will be considered Probable cause for the initial stop. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the officer is a professional and does this 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, or more.

 

[sutliffhl21]

What about the fact that he lost site of my vehicle and he initiated the stop in another jurisdiction, and the wrong plate number fedcop?

 

[fedcop110]

Well, as lawgirl stated, as long as the officer can testify as to the fact that it was your vehicle that he observed "speeding" and that it was your vehcle that he in fact stopped, he is good to go. And like it or not, 9 times out of 10 the officer can convince a judge that he had the probable cause to at least initiate a stop. It may have been as simple as a taillight out, something hanging from your rearview mirror, you may have swerved crossing the center line. The PC for the stop could have been literaly a hundred different things.

As for the wrong plate number, in my jurisdiction all I would have to do is re-file. It happens. As for your jurisdiction, I don't know. Your best bet is to get with the clerks office and find out exactly how it would work in your locality.

On to the location of the stop. If the officer observed the violation in his jurisdiction he is permitted to make the stop in another. You might call the police department and ask for a copy of their policy on pursuits stemming from minor traffic violations, however, it will not be a defense in court as the officer can legally stop you in the second jurisdiction. I posted a personal experience about this same topic in this post.
https://forum.freeadvice.com/showpost.php?p=860142&postcount=6

Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[sutliffhl21]

Fedcop, lets say in your jurisdiction you had to re-file the citation. In Pa, we have a 30 day statute of limitation in which the police have to file on a violation. With it being almost 2 months already gone by, lets say if you had that same policy....would re-filing eliminate the citation because of the statute of limitations that would have expired, meaing an automatic dismiss?

 

[seniorjudge]

Q: What about the fact that he lost site of my vehicle and he initiated the stop in another jurisdiction, and the wrong plate number fedcop?

A: Thank you, you have made my day. This is not a game of tag and stop watching The Dukes of Hazzard and use that time to Google hot pursuit.

 

[sutliffhl21]

It is not my intention to play "tag" with the police..nor is it my intent to act like an episode of "The Dukes Of Hazzard", even though the small towns that surround me do have sheriff Roscoe's patrolling them with nothing better else to do. I understand that the cop, including the judge may darn well know I am guilty, but the law is the law and a technicality is a technicality, thats why I posted this thread. The officer had 2 opportunities to see my plate number..on the registration card that he held in his hand AND when he was parked directly behind my vehicle. I was officially cited on a citation for a violation that occured in a vehicle with the incorrect plate#. IN fact, the plate # was off by 1 letter. The cop was so hiped up to get me that he couldnt write the plate number down correctly. I have been stopped by the same cop over and over again....the first time for an air freshner hanging from the mirror....yes..an air freshner. And when he made the stop he was 10 miles out of his town and didnt even show up at the hearing. And it has only been this one officer that I have had problems with. This wasnt a case of me going out and causing problems around town. In fact, an attorney strongly reccomended a harrassment lawsuit for other events as well. But if a technicality can get it dismissed such as a wrong plate# on the ticket, then so be it.

 

[fedcop110]

Fedcop, lets say in your jurisdiction you had to re-file the citation. In Pa, we have a 30 day statute of limitation in which the police have to file on a violation. With it being almost 2 months already gone by, lets say if you had that same policy....would re-filing eliminate the citation because of the statute of limitations that would have expired, meaing an automatic dismiss?

No, the statute of limitations would only apply on the charges first being brought. Within 30 days of the stop. After that you may, and I stress may, be looking at speedy trial issues. I wouldn't count on anything though. I would pay the citation and be done with the mess. Sounds like this might be a personal grudge with both parties, although I would be interested in hearing the officers side.

Sorry, I didn't look at your title...you were driving on a suspended operators license? Now I see why you are pursuing this. Talk to a lawyer.

 

[sutliffhl21]

his grudge is that I had a susoended license, and was driving on it to go to work and back. In his travels, he has to drive between 2 different towns because the other towns are encompassed by his. The only problem is that the town that he sees me driving recently disbanded their police depts and are only patrolled by the state patrol. He knows he cant touch me there, and thats why he has a grudge. He will do whatever it takes. If he has to re-file the citation, I havent even gotten the original hearing on incident in the first place, and when and if he has to re-file it will be almost 2 months after the stop...i guess that is my only hope of a dismissal.

 

[fedcop110]

his grudge is that I had a susoended license, and was driving on it to go to work and back.

Did you have a suspended license or a restricted license (to and from work, Alcohol abuse program, etc...?)

 

[sutliffhl21]

it was originally totally 100% suspended due to speeding violations. I then got a to-and-from work license 3 months prior to him stopping me. So, at the time I had a work license. He however thought that it was 100% suspended. I was driving on my night off, but he had no way of knowing what my days off were. By the way, is the license plate# considered material information on the citation in this case?