EBay item sent... Fraud... Sold debt? Leagal?

[Leblais]

What is the name of your state? Coneecticut

Ok this is a long story but ill try to make it brief.

A guy from Texas won an auction for a tangable item from me on ebay abou 8 months ago for about $305. I was late in shipping item. He emailed me repetedly to ship so it got annoying and I blocked his emails. He then called me. We talked and I told him I would ship out soon. Within a few days I had someone ship it.

About a week later he told me that it broke and that he wanted half his money money back. I responded that item was sold as is and that it had worked. He contacted ebay and paypal. He didnt respond within their alloted time frame for complaints so they logged it and gave me a "warning" with no chance to rebutle.

I assumed it was over at this point because the companies basically said it was over. Not the case. Some time passed and I started getting phone calls from a man that said he worked for an agency that "bought" the debt that I "owed" the sellerand that they were NOT a collection agency. This agency is located in Connecticut about 15 miles from me! I didnt respond because it sounded like a fraud. I couldnt find this alleged business.

About 4 or 5 letters came, stating that payment was due and growing (almost double now). The calls keep coming, though im never home so I have left most of them on the answering machine, and they are getting threatening. Talking about MAIL FRAUD and sherriffs. During one call, he mentioned that he urged his client not to take any further action, yet on the last call he states that I may have a sherriff at the door. This last call there was a legitimate business that showed up on my caller ID, that I can track to a recovery specialist! Is this for real?

How can he prove that I "owe" him? Thinking it was over 6-7 months ago, I keept no information to prove anything. I have done over 120 transactions on ebay and have a 98% positive experience! I am not a crook, but I really dont have time for this anymore. Can he/they really sue me; and who would do it, this alleged company or the buyer? How much can he sue me for if he somehow wins?

Should I contact this company or should I continue to ignore him. My thoughts of him trying to strong arm me and it being a sham may be incorrect.

What should I do, or at least where does the burden of proof lie? Can you really sell debt like that, even if its not proven to be debt? This is soo messed up... NO more ebay for me!!!

Please help, its stressin me out...

Thanx
Tony

 

[JETX]

How can he prove that I "owe" him?

There are numerous ways that he can attempt to show you are liable. What they might be, and what counters you might have to them, depends largely on the specifics.

Can he/they really sue me; and who would do it, this alleged company or the buyer? How much can he sue me for if he somehow wins?

Can 'he' sue you?? Yes. After all, anyone can sue almost anyone else.
Who?? Depends on the court. Most states bar 'assigned' claims from small claims court. So, if the original complainant files, he can use that venue. If the 'assignee' sues, he will have to use a higher court.
How much can he sue for?? He can sue for anything he wants.... but would likely only get the initial amount ($305) if he were to win.

Should I contact this company or should I continue to ignore him. My thoughts of him trying to strong arm me and it being a sham may be incorrect.

Clearly, ignoring them as you have isn't working. I suggest you contact them.... and try to find out what their 'standing' is in this claim.

 

[Leblais]

Can they also sue for lawyer fees and court costs? You stated just the original amount he/they would most likely be awarded if they won.

Also can I file contigencies of a counter suit if I win? And then sue for MY lawyer fees etc.??

How long does this process take?

Who would I really owe money too?? I dont think anyone, but this company is the one who said that I owe them now!
I guess I dont understand what an assignee is!

Where would the court process take place? In Ct where the assignee (as you called them) and I live, or in Texas where the original buyer lived/lives?

 

[JETX]

Can they also sue for lawyer fees and court costs?

Yes.

You stated just the original amount he/they would most likely be awarded if they won.

I assumed that an attorney would not be used for this small amount to be heard in a small claims court. I also assumed that you knew that court costs are awarded to the plaintiff if he prevails.

Also can I file contigencies of a counter suit if I win? And then sue for MY lawyer fees etc.??

You can claim anything you want. However, based solely on the information in your post, I doubt that you would prevail.

How long does this process take?

Depends on the courts case load. Call and ask them.

Who would I really owe money too?? I dont think anyone, but this company is the one who said that I owe them now!
I guess I dont understand what an assignee is!

You would owe the money to whoever owns the claim or judgment.

Where would the court process take place? In Ct where the assignee (as you called them) and I live, or in Texas where the original buyer lived/lives?

It could take place in either state..... but since you claim that the assignee is in CT, presumably it would take place there.

 

[Leblais]

I really cant believe this garbage. I didnt think that I could get scr%$ed like this. It really not worth my time I dont think...

Can I simply REFUND the original buyer via paypal and assume that the debt is clear, or do I really need to pay it to this guy that states he bought the debt and now owe him.??

I cant see that I could be sued for that same money again could I??

I simply dont want to deal with this company person because of his demeaner, and really dont want to pay him.

Ugg, I just want it to end... I would lose money just going to court (Id have to take a day off) and not to mention if some how I did lose (as I really have no proof that I sent it) id have to pay like $1000.00 instead of the $300.00 WHat an injustice!

Thanx guys, youve been a big help so far, not that I like any of the answers so far...

Tony

 

[JETX]

Can I simply REFUND the original buyer via paypal and assume that the debt is clear, or do I really need to pay it to this guy that states he bought the debt and now owe him.??

Contact the person and advise that you will pay in full..... on their providing a signed statement from the original buyer that he/they now OWN the debt. Once you get that, contact the original seller and confirm the fact with him. Then, get a written promise of release from all claims on payment. Once you get that.... pay the amount.... and keep a copy of ALL documents.

 

[dallas702]

Wait.

The buyer won your item on Ebay. You didn't ship as soon as he wanted so he is retaliating by claiming the item was broken. If your ebay ad states "as is", and no guarantees, he has no claim or recourse. He has to sue you in CT, and I don't think he will do that for $150 or $305. If you stated that it was "as is" he won't win anyway. There was no "debt" to buy or sell to anyone else to collect. That's just pure B.S.! Tell them to stop harassing you and call your local authorities who deal with this strongarm scamming.

BUT...you have to stop ignoring him. Take 5 minutes and answer the guy. That's what got him pissed off in the first place. I'd like to know your Ebay username so I don't ever bid on anything you sell. Your m.o. seems to be to ignore customers who have a problem with your service. If you'd just take care of business in the first place, and then communicate with your customers, you wouldn't be wasting time with this.

Maybe you should just send him the whole $305 for putting HIM through all this crap.

 

[Leblais]

Hey Dallas... I did ship late cause I was outta state, and when I returned I was working 7 days a week. I didnt plan it. I never communicated with the AGENCY or the guy once he said it was broken...

Though I KNOW I sent the item, and HE claims I didnt, and I have NO proof at all that I did send it, then I CANT prove that I did! Its not that he is saying that it is broken anymore. He is saying he never received it... And I cant prove otherwise.
I have great feedback on ebay because im an ethical seller and purchaser and have learned a lesson either way.

He wanted his money back and that was that. I dont think I was in the wrong and I dont now, but the path of least resistance may be to just pay him now to eleviate stress and possible court costs in a battle im thinking I cant win...

I agree, the buyer probobly wouldnt sue me, but I really think that this agency would. After all its their job!! Isnt it? I have never heard of a retreival specialist before now, and I didnt know that a person could "sell" debt to them!

Now that I know this agency is a legitimate business, and that either party can attempt to sue me and that I may lose, I think it perhaps the easiest thing to cut and run...

UGGGGGGG.......

 

[JETX]

Ignore 'dallas702' as his/her post is full of assumption without basis in fact or simply incorrect 'opinion'.

The buyer won your item on Ebay. You didn't ship as soon as he wanted so he is retaliating by claiming the item was broken.

No one KNOWS that. In fact, the item could have been broken upon receipt.... or not.

If your ebay ad states "as is", and no guarantees, he has no claim or recourse.

Again, not true. There are numerous valid complaints that will stand even in an 'as is' sale. One being fraud.... as presumed to be claimed in this case.

He has to sue you in CT, and I don't think he will do that for $150 or $305.

Again, not true. The 'victim' can sue you in HIS home state claiming that it has jurisdiction as he claims the 'deal' was done on his end (location). IF you file a change of venue motion AND the court disagrees, it will be heard in HIS home court.

If you stated that it was "as is" he won't win anyway.

As noted above, not true.

There was no "debt" to buy or sell to anyone else to collect.

That is correct, there wasn't a 'debt'.... however, that is NOT the issue. There is a CLAIM..... and that is the issue.

That's just pure B.S.!

Your POST is full of B.S.!!!

 

[dallas702]

Well, now the story changes a bit. I don't know why you sent this item...especially for $305....without getting a document to prove it from the shipper. If you used a commercial shipper (UPS, FedEx, etc.) they might still have a record of it. But, how can he first claim "it broke" after having it for several weeks, then claim he didn't receive it at all. Either you are misrepresenting the whole event, or the buyer is flat out lying. If it got there and "it broke" after he had possession of it, you have NO responsibility (contrary to what JETX says)....unless it "broke" under its intended use AND you had guaranteed the item for some length of tme. Even then he would have to prove he used it correctly and it failed.

Did he send the item back, or send pics or proof of its failure? Without that you still have no "debt" because there is no proof of his claim. Who documented this breakage or failure, and who is claiming (besides the buyer) that there is any money owed? This "agency" cannot try to collect a debt that doesn't exist without authority or a judgement. Tell them to go pound sand until they can prove there is a debt and that they have the right to collect it.

Try to get a shipping delivery confirmation of some kind. If you don't know if it really was sent, that's another matter. SO...which is it....sent and broke after use, or maybe not even sent?

JETX;

you keep throwing in factors that haven't been shown to exist. There is no mention of "fraud" or anything else that would give the buyer a claim. "As is" means just that.If the seller is accurate, the buyer claimed to have received the item and then "it broke". The rest is speculation.

 

[JETX]

JETX;

you keep throwing in factors that haven't been shown to exist.

Interesting that you say that.... since it is YOU are assuming facts not in evidence..... and exposing your 'confusion'.

The original post says:
"Within a few days I had someone ship it.

About a week later he told me that it broke and that he wanted half his money money back. I responded that item was sold as is and that it had worked."
I read that as the buyer is claiming it was broken on DELIVERY, not that it broke after the fact.

There is no mention of "fraud" or anything else that would give the buyer a claim.

Again, intelligence seems to have eluded you.
I only mentioned fraud as a POSSIBLE claim by the seller ("There are numerous valid complaints that will stand even in an 'as is' sale. One being fraud.... as presumed to be claimed in this case.").

"As is" means just that.If the seller is accurate, the buyer claimed to have received the item and then "it broke".

And again, you venture down the trail of ignorance.
Fraud in a purchase is a perfectly good cause of action.... and one of several possible ones.... even if the seller claims 'as is'.

 

[dallas702]

I agree that fraud would certainly be a cause to demand and get a refund, but I think we are both in the shadows about whether or not the item was delivered, delivered working and later broke, or delivered broken. Actually, the buyer should have the evidence of the item being shipped and the shipper because that was one of his remedies. But now that he is claiming to never have received the item the whole picture changes. It would certainly weaken his case IF the seller has kept any of the communication that shows the buyer stating that he actually did receive the item. My contention about the seller causing the damage is based on the statement by the seller that it was about a week later, and that he only wanted "half" of his money back. Again, the facts are fuzzy to say the least, but if it was broken at delivery why didn't the seller ask for a full refund, and then make arrangements to return the item.

Actually, I have done the very same thing a few times upon receiving damaged goods as long as I could still use them or fix them, mostly to keep from paying more shipping. Many sellers will discount an item if you show them the damage and that you could not have been responsible. From the statements so far, the buyer hasn't shown any evidence of the damage to the seller. That would stop me from refunding anything.

But, the later claim of not even receiving the item completely changes the picture. I still say there is no debt to colect without a proper authority to show there was an actual loss and whose fault that loss was. Then, it is still "he said, she said" without documentation or proof.

Leblaise;

do you have anything to prove the buyers original statements that he did receive the item and it was/had broken?

 

[Leblais]

OK guys... we seem to be getting the facts confused.... what can I prove? NOTHING.

So, since he is saying that I didnt ship it, then how can I prove it. I have no emails, no letters, no shipping confirmation, nothing to prove that he received it. I dont care if he got it and broke it, I dont care if it was broke when he got it, because his whole thing is that he is saying it never arrived. Just because I KNOW that it DID, doesnt mean crap.

I cant prove it. Truth is truth, but when he says, now, that he didnt get it, and we go to court, then what do I say...? That I sent it and have no proof? Though dumb as I was to ship it uncomfirmed to save $10 bucks, I did it, and learned a lesson. But what should I do now???

SO leave the speculation about the rest behind, and assume that he didnt get it. Can he still concider this debt? Can he "sell" debt to this agency? Since I didnt respond to this agency yet (its been over 6 months) one of the papers he sent me said that I needed to contact them in writing within 30 days or they would assume that the debt is legit. (I just looked back at the paperwork....) As I said, I never thought this was legitimate, because I couldnt find the business anywhere and phone lookups came back to a person, not a business.

Now it is coming back to a business! So the agency is threatening me with a sherrif knockin at my door (and he says, " Im sure you know what that means") and saying the words FRAUD a lot. The amount that the agency is saying I owe them continues to rise. Im afraid that:

1. Im going to have to go to court (and lose a days wages)
2. I may loose a lot of money on the case. The $550 or so they are saying the debt is now up to with interest and fees (which I cannot see why I would have to pay for them!! I never entered a contract etc) PLUS whatever lawer fees and court costs, which could be upwards of $2000 or even more
3. That it is a criminal offence. I dont even have a speeding ticket, I dont want to be a criminal. Not to mention, I could lose my job over it!

The guy from the agency also had mentioned that HE NOW OWNED the debt and I was to pay HIM not the buyer. But in later messages he states that he had urged his "client" (the buyer) not to take further action. Does this sound right? Why would he call the buyer his client, if the buyer is no longer linked to the money? He did send me a copy of a faxed letter with the buyers signature on it and it seems to be an assignment of debt.

It sucks but it seems like I may have to pay the darn loser some money...

Thanx for all the help so far... Any other opinions??
Is everyone here a lawyer? or no??

Ohh , and when does it become DEBT. In other words, I never bought anything from him, he did from me! So in order to be entitled to the money (IF I never sent it to him) wouldnt someone (like a court) need to intervene and say YOU OWE HIM, BEFORE he can send it to an agency to collect it??

Cause thats like saying I borrowed money from my friend, gave it back, then he says I didnt and in turn sends me in to a collection agency (or a recovery specialist in this case) , and THEY concider it debt. Isnt this the same type of thing?? I dont get how he can say to a company that I OWE him somethink without proof, then THEY can try to collect on it and sue me for it!

gosh, sorry this is sooo darn long!!! Im just frustrated !!! arggg

 

[dallas702]

How is this agency showing to you that there is a proven debt? Do they have a court judgement? Are they going solely on the word of some guy in TX who claims he never received your item? They have to have some OFFICIAL/LEGAL documentation to prove there is in fact a real and collectible debt. Thay cannot add interest or penalties to something that doesn't legally exist. How did the buyer pay you? If by CC or Paypal, all he had to do is "reclaim" the money through them. No mail fraud has been proven, and no sheriff is going to show up at your door (except maybe to subpoena you to small claims court). Even IF they get you into court they would be idiots to use lawyers because they are not going to get reimbursed for their expenses. Legal expenses for suits like this are seldom recovered by either party.

I think this "agency" is some guy the TX buyer knows who is trying to lean on you. His language sounds like some high school punk who maybe got his "business" going through some internet or mail order "opportunity".. You can see these half-baked businesses being sold all over the place in magazines.

The worst thing you can do is to keep ignoring the demands. Just answer the idiot and tell him to provide PROOF of the debt. Evidence is everything. Bull**** is nothing!

 

[Leblais]

They showed me nothing of PROVEN debt, just the word of the buyer in TX, is all that I have seen.

I thought small claims court bars businesses? If this agency tries to sue, then it would go to the next level, am I correct? Then the lawyers WOULD be involved and the loser to pay lawyer fees. Is THIS correct?

Yep, he paid by paypal, but he didnt put in a claim in enough time. He waited too long. If indeed he had put it in to paypal a little earlier, he would have won from them due to the fact that they require proof of delivery. (I had non, so he would have been awarded the money. NO arguments of mine are valid at that point.) But, like I said, he waited over the 30 or 60 day mark and they basically told him "sorry too late", and told me that they would watch me for other problems like this to happen then suspend my account if it happened too often! (Which of course it never did)

Ok, so I guess I'll call this guy this week and tell him to send me PROOF of debt?? Then I assume since he cant, that it will be over? A credit card wouldnt show you "proof" of debt either. There is no legal paper that says you owe money, is there?

Thanx again guys
Tony