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email and lawsuit

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awl2005

Member
What is the name of your state? IN
Person A serves on a non-profit Board with person B. Person B is the wife of the Mayor. Person A sends an email to Person C and D, who are friends but also on the Board, and Person E who is a friend and was on the Board but no longer is. Person A makes some comments about and their opinion of Person B in this email.

Person E forwards this email to several persons. Person C forwards it to Person B.

Now Person B is claiming that she is going to sue Person A for making slanderous comments about her and sue Person A's business because the emails were on Person A's business email account. Person A's business said that they have received a complaint about this from Person B.

1. Does Person B have a case of slander against person A since person A did not intend for this to go any further than persons C, D, & E?
2. Can person E & C be included since they are the ones that forwarded the email?
3. Can Person A's company be drug into it?
4. Does Person A have any ground for suing Person B for bringing it to Person A's employer?

Thanks.
 


moburkes

Senior Member
What is the name of your state? IN
Person A serves on a non-profit Board with person B. Person B is the wife of the Mayor. Person A sends an email to Person C and D, who are friends but also on the Board, and Person E who is a friend and was on the Board but no longer is. Person A makes some comments about and their opinion of Person B in this email.

Person E forwards this email to several persons. Person C forwards it to Person B.

Now Person B is claiming that she is going to sue Person A for making slanderous comments about her and sue Person A's business because the emails were on Person A's business email account. Person A's business said that they have received a complaint about this from Person B.

1. Does Person B have a case of slander against person A since person A did not intend for this to go any further than persons C, D, & E?
2. Can person E & C be included since they are the ones that forwarded the email?
3. Can Person A's company be drug into it?
4. Does Person A have any ground for suing Person B for bringing it to Person A's employer?

Thanks.
1. Well, not slander, but potentially libel. Anybody can sue anyone for anything.
2. Sure, but there's no reason to do so.
3. Yes.
4. Nope.
 

awl2005

Member
Confused

So, how can Person A be libel for saying something that they did not intend to go any further than Person c, d & e? They did not publish it nor did they "blast" it out to the world? Since when is "free speech" to you buddy a crime?
:eek:
 

moburkes

Senior Member
Just for argument's sake. Did Persons A, C, D, and E promise each other that none of the conversations would be repeated, that no one would EVER read their emails, etc?

Nothing happened to free speech. Its alive and well.
 

awl2005

Member
Well, I would assume that it is as much as a promise as if you are talking to them face to face.
And yes, the one that passed it to the world did promise not to say anything about it to anyone else.
So if you are freeing speaking to a person and someone overhears it, get offensive about it, they can then go sue the person? Even though they were not talking to them and they were listening in? Does free speech go out the window?
 

moburkes

Senior Member
Free speech does NOT mean without repercussions.

For example, you SHALL NOT yell "Fire" in a room full of people, and expect not to be punished.

Fromt the net:
These social functions point out that the First Amendment is about protecting the public good rather than individual freedom. Freedom of speech in America has NEVER been absolute.
****
The topic of free speech is one of the most contentious issues in a liberal society. If liberty of expression is not valued, as has often been the case in human history, there is no problem; freedom of expression is simply curtailed in favor of other competing values. Free speech only becomes a volatile issue when it is highly valued because only then do the limitations placed upon it become controversial. And the first thing to note in any sensible discussion of freedom of speech is that it will be limited because it always takes place within a context of competing values. This is what Stanley Fish means when he says that there is no such thing as free speech. Free speech is just a term to focus our attention on a particular form of human interaction; it does not mean that speech should never be interfered with: "free speech in short, is not an independent value but a political prize" (1994,102). No society has yet existed where speech has not been interfered with to some extent. As John Stuart Mill argued in On Liberty, a struggle always takes place between the competing demands of liberty and authority, and we cannot have the latter without the former:
All that makes existence valuable to anyone depends on the enforcement of restraints upon the actions of other people. Some rules of conduct, therefore, must be imposed -- by law in the first place, and by opinion on many things which are not fit subjects for the operation of law. (1978, 5)
The task, therefore, is not to argue for a "pure" unadulterated free speech; such a concept cannot be defended. Instead, we need to decide how much value we place on speech in relation to the worth we place on other important ideals: "speech, in short, is never a value in and of itself but is always produced within the precincts of some assumed conception of the good" (Fish, 1994, 104). In this essay, we will examine some conceptions of the good that are deemed to be legitimate limitations on speech. We will start with the harm principle and then move on to other, more encompassing arguments for limiting speech.
Before we do this, however, the reader might wish to disagree with the claims made above and warn of the dangers of the “slippery slope.” The slippery slope argument is that we should not limit free speech because once we do we will slide our way into tyranny and censorship. Such arguments assume that we can be on or off the slope. In fact, no such choice exists: we are necessarily on the slope whether we like it or not, and the task is always to decide how far up or down we choose to go, not whether we should step off altogether. It is worth noting that the slippery slope argument can be used to make the opposite point; one could argue with equal force that we should never allow any removal of government involvement with the action of individuals because once we do we are on the slippery slope to anarchy, the state of nature, and a life that Hobbes described in Leviathan as “solitary, poore, nasty, brutish, and short” (1968, 186).

The second thing to note is that we are in fact free to speak as we like. Hence, free speech differs from some other forms of freedom of action. If the government wishes to stop citizens performing certain actions, riding motor bikes for example, it can limit the freedom to do so by making sure that such vehicles are no longer available; current bikes could be destroyed and a ban can be placed on imports. Freedom of speech is a different case. A government cannot make it impossible to say certain things. The only thing it can do is punish people after they have said, written or published. This means that we are free to speak or write in a way that we are not free to ride outlawed motorbikes. This is an important point; if we insist that legal prohibitions remove freedom then we have to hold the incoherent position that a person was unfree in the performance of an action. The government would have to remove our vocal chords for us to be unfree to speak in the same way as those who want to ride motorbikes are unfree.

A better way to think about freedom of speech is to say that the threat of a sanction makes us less free than we would be without the threat because the threat makes it more difficult and more costly to exercise our freedom. Such sanctions take two major forms. The first, and most serious, is punishment by the state, which usually consists of a financial penalty, but occasionally can stretch to imprisonment. The second threat of sanction comes from social disapprobation. People will often refrain from making statements because they fear the ridicule and moral outrage of others. For example, one could expect a fair amount of these things if one made racist comments during a public lecture at a university. Usually it is the first type that sparks the most controversy but John Stuart Mill provides a strong warning about the chilling effect of the latter form of sanction.

from http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freedom-speech/
 

moburkes

Senior Member
Person A can do whatever he wants. I, however, am tired about talking about hypotheticals. If YOU would like to ask questions about a particular situation that you are involved in and will describe what the hell was said, then I'll respond back.

Have you given up on your free speech argument?
 

BoredAtty

Member
What is the name of your state? IN
Person A serves on a non-profit Board with person B. Person B is the wife of the Mayor. Person A sends an email to Person C and D, who are friends but also on the Board, and Person E who is a friend and was on the Board but no longer is. Person A makes some comments about and their opinion of Person B in this email.

Person E forwards this email to several persons. Person C forwards it to Person B.

Now Person B is claiming that she is going to sue Person A for making slanderous comments about her and sue Person A's business because the emails were on Person A's business email account. Person A's business said that they have received a complaint about this from Person B.

1. Does Person B have a case of slander against person A since person A did not intend for this to go any further than persons C, D, & E?
It depends on the statements, but possibly. Generally, statements of opinion are not considered defamatory. Untrue statements of fact made with malice to a third party that injure a person's reputation may be defamatory, however. It doesn't matter whether the statements went any further than C, D & E, as each are third parties themselves.

2. Can person E & C be included since they are the ones that forwarded the email?
Each person who spreads a defamatory statement could potentially be liable. It also may depend on whether E & C acted with malice themselves.

3. Can Person A's company be drug into it?
If by "drug into it" you mean "can the company be successfully sued," then most likely the answer is no. An employer will generally not be liable for the torts of his employee unless the actions were within the employee's scope of employment.

4. Does Person A have any ground for suing Person B for bringing it to Person A's employer?
Probably not.
 
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awl2005

Member
Response

Sure, I emailed 3 of my friends (2 are on the same Board as us all and 1 is not) and talking about another Board member, basically called her a manipulative bitch who was trying to get her way on the Board by backstabbing everyone. Then I repeated some heresay about what another Board member had said. This is nothing new. As I said we were all friends and had talked about it frequently in the same tone and the same manner.

The one not on the Board, thought it was funny and emailed it to several other people. One of those people email back to the Board member we were talking about.

Now the person wants to sue me for slander and making comments about her. She also wants my employer to fire me or she will sue them because I used the company email. She is a good friend of one of the owners of the company.

So, bottom line. I was an idiot. But should that cost me a lawsuit and my job because she is a friend of the owner?
 

quincy

Senior Member
Yup, you were an idiot.
She can sue you for libel (libel is written, slander is spoken), but unless she can show she was injured in some way by the remarks, and that what was written was implied fact and not opinion and not true, she may not win the suit. It will still cost you a lot of money to defend against the suit, however.
As for writing the email on your company's computer, yes, the company could terminate your employment - but they could terminate your employment for any or no reason, anyway.
And, obviously, one of your friends is not real friendly if he/she sent the offending email to the woman in question.
 

awl2005

Member
Counter

Thanks. I knew I was an idiot! :D

So, on the same note, can I sue the people that forwarded my email on for anything? I don't want to be the only idiot!
 

quincy

Senior Member
Well, this is a stretch, but you could potentially sue them for copyright infringement. When you write a letter, you own the copyright to the written words. When you receive a letter, you do not have the right to reproduce that letter in any way - you can read it, you can toss it, but you do not have the right to reproduce it. Although the recipient of a letter gets the physical possession of it, the rights remain with the writer of the letter.
 
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awl2005

Member
Response

So I could attack on two fronts. Copyright infringment on the person(s) responsible for forwarding my email and freedom of speech on the other. There is no financial loss to the person involved. I don't have that much influence on anything. :D
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
I think copyright infringement is a REAL stretch. When you send someone an e-mail, it is now theirs. They are free to share it with anyone they choose.
 

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