Employer Responsible for my lack of a job?

[Oldenmar]

What is the name of your state? Wisconsin

I have been (unhappily) employed with the kind of dead end job everyone wants to get out of for a few months now while looking for some kind of full time work that I can turn into a career.

I have worked hard and moved up fast for every company I have worked with, become management in 3 of 4 positions held in the last 4 years. I have only switched jobs due to going to school or issues with the companies. Note: Every company that I have left, I have left on the best of terms. They all say that I move up quickly, that I am a great worker, a fast learner, and a leader among employees.

Now that the past has been said, I face my current problem. I have applied for over 35 positions on and off in the last few months, and have been promoted to "Shift Leader" at my current job. Still, it's nothing I can make a career out of. I have not applied for anything that's "out of my league" I graduated high school and went on to some schooling until my money would not allow (very poor family history, but still hardly qualified for government aid).

I had been getting discouraged after not even getting call backs for interviews when I overheard then asked current employees at my job about what had happened. The story follows: Names changed for legality issues

"Bill had worked as the cook for months, he was the best we had, really fast and a great worker. Well he had been applying all over and couldn't get anywhere, finally he called and found out that Debby had been saying that he was 'A lazy slacker, hardly on task, unclean and sometimes rude.' "

I am having a friend of the family who happens to own a business call and ask for a reference to let me know what she says. (this is legal, correct?). If she says slanderous things about me, do I have a possible lawsuit, if not to get money from it, at least to clear up things and get her to realize she cannot do this and shake her up a bit?

Thank you so much!

Mark

 

[Oldenmar]

I should also note that these reasons are not to prevent me from getting employment, but to prevent me from leaving.

 

[quincy]

No slander lawsuit here, I'm afraid. Sorry.

What "Debby" is saying can be considered opinion and, therefore, what she is saying is protected free speech. What she is saying can neither be proved nor disproved. She may, very well, consider someone a slacker, off-task, rude and unclean.

When applying for new jobs, you may list your current employment but request that the potential employer not contact your current employer, as your current job could be in jeopardy if they did. Most potential employers will honor your request and only contact your prior employers and listed references.

A word of warning about your job-jumping: Many employers will look to see how long you have been with a previous employer. If you come and go frequently, from one job to the next, you may be eliminated from consideration for a job position, regardless of how hard a worker or how good a worker you may be. Most employers do not want to spend time and money on training only to have the employee leave within a few months.

 

[Oldenmar]

Thanks much!

Like I said, the jobs I have bounced around in have never been "career" material, just retail or other positions that I've had to move around in (such as moving or leaving for college).

Thanks for the advice tho!

What if I find she is saying things that are absolutely untrue, such as I'm late often (I have never arrived late, always there 10-15 minutes early) or other things that are completely untrue? (there are rumors she does that).

Thanks Quincy!

 

[quincy]

If "Debby" tells lies and implies they are fact (such as, "He is always late"), these lies aren't a solid enough basis for a slander suit. Slander must be "outrageous", causing you to be hated, ridiculed, shunned, held in contempt, or injured in your business. Slander is very hard to prove, as you need reliable witnesses to testify that someone said something slanderous and, in addition, you must demonstrate a reputational injury of some sort directly connected to these slanderous statements. It would be difficult, at best, to prove Debby's lies, balanced against the good reviews from your other former employers, were the sole reason you were not offered a job.

The winnable defamation suits tend to be "extreme", such as being accused of being a child molester or a rapist. False accusations such as these can affect your life a great deal more, obviously, than a false accusation of being late for work.

Your best course of action is to leave Debby out of the equation entirely as you search for new jobs. If you have a co-worker at your current job that you can use as a reference, if you feel this job is important to your resume, then add the co-worker's name. But, again, request that the potential employer not contact your current employer. This is done frequently, even when the applicant knows the current employer will give a good review and recommendation, as it protects the applicant from advertising to his current employer that he is looking for a new job. Potential employers respect that and will generally comply with the request.

You mentioned that you had difficulty with the expense involved in college. It is expensive, but it might be worth your while to sit down with a financial aid counselor to see if you can get some low-interest loans, or scholarships based on your area of interest. I know that you can succeed without a college education, but sometimes success comes quicker and easier with one.

 

[Oldenmar]

Thanks a ton, the advice is greatly appreciated.

I was going to college for writing, working in newspapers and things, now I'm gearing myself more towards business. Still not sure what i want to "do" when i grow up, you know?

IF i find out more about what exactly she may be saying, I will update you (and everyone).

I was reading about other lawsuits after looking up information about libel and slander, and noticed there were cases like mine that affected their ability to be hired. I will be looking more closely and making calls to recently applied employers just to see why exactly i wasn't hired and if I were to apply again, how to go about it better.

IF the number of losses comes directly for reasons of "You're current employer said 'insert negative feedback here'" and it it something not as malicious as child molester, but still making assumptions that I'm lazy, late, and good for nothing or what not...would there be a case?

 

[quincy]

If you can tie Debby's comments directly to your failure to get a job because her comments damaged your reputation then, yes, it would make for a better case, but probably, in my opinion, not a winnable one.

Debby's defense can always be "opinion", and I think she may win any suit on that alone. If, for instance, a potential employer calls and asks Debby what she thinks of you as a worker, she can say she thinks you are lazy, rude, unclean and always late. She can say you are the worst employee she has ever had. These all may be lies but, to her, perhaps, being late means not coming in an hour ahead of the time you are scheduled, and she might sincerely believe you are rude. You cannot PROVE that she doesn't think that. Opinions cannot be proved true or false, and it is a valid defense against any defamation suit. If she hires an attorney, you would have a tough fight.

If you do decide to file a defamation suit, thinking you can argue successfully against her defense, you would need witnesses willing to testify in court that they heard Debby say something FALSE and slanderous, and you must PROVE that this ALONE influenced the potential employer enough so that he decided not to hire you, whereas he would have hired you otherwise. The potential employer may very well say that you were one of many being considered for a position and there were several reasons why you were not hired. And, I am not sure that too many of these potential employers will willingly go to court on your behalf, even if it was Debby's comments alone that influenced them, although you could always serve them with a summons to appear.

This, I must warn you, could make you even less hireable than anything Debby did say or could say.

For a lawsuit, Debby's lies ALONE must be the reason for your failure to get hired, or you have no chance of winning a suit that you only have a very very VERY slim chance of winning to begin with.

You could certainly sit down with a lawyer and review your situation with him/her. I am pretty sure that the "injury" you could show to your reputation would not be great enough to warrant the costs involved in bringing a slander suit. The damages awarded in slander suits are far smaller than those in libel suits, as slander is considered a "lesser" defamation. Once something is said, it is gone, and there is no written record left behind to further defame you. Often, in a win, the damages awarded are not worth the cost of bringing suit.

In other words, you would be spending thousands, and investing several months minimum, in such a suit, and there is no guarantee you would win. I, personally, am not convinced that you have a winnable case at all.

(by the way, the world needs more good journalists - you should look at local papers to get a start )

 

[Oldenmar]

To the last comment: I did, the big ones don't hire people without 5-10 years experience, and the small ones rarely ever hire. But I am trying hard.

Thanks so much for all the advice, it helps a lot more to have this kind of an opinion rather than just websites to go off of.

 

[quincy]

A tip on getting a job with a newspaper: Write a story of your own on something of local interest - perhaps there is an historic home being restored, or a turkey farm gearing up for Thanksgiving, or something like that. Present the finished story to the local paper. Include photos if you can. Many small papers will print stories like that. You may not get paid, but you will have been published. A writer who has published an article has something to show to prospective employers, and your initiative in going after the story on your own will impress.