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enforcement of vague order

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What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA, IL

Hi, Jurisdiction is in CA but the kids spend the school year in IL. Joint legal; mother sole physical 70/30 time split.

Father lives very close to mother's relatives. He agreed initially to allow children to see their maternal relatives but now refuses them any access whatsoever (won't even allow children to call their grandmother on her birthday).

The current order states "Mother is to have the children for 8 days in the summer. This time is to remain flexible once Mother gives Father 3 weeks notice and it does not conflict with a previously paid for vacation Father has planned. If Father’s Day falls during Mother’s 8 days, Mother agrees that the children can spend Father’s Day with their Father and that day will be made up the following day so that Mother maintains 8 full days. For future years Mother and Father agree to come to a mutually agreeable summer vacation schedule. Father and Mother agree that is very important for the children to spend time in the summer with both sets of relatives and agree to cooperate and work together in good faith to achieve this."

Is there any way to enforce that last sentence? Thanks!
 


Proserpina

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA, IL

Hi, Jurisdiction is in CA but the kids spend the school year in IL. Joint legal; mother sole physical 70/30 time split.

Father lives very close to mother's relatives. He agreed initially to allow children to see their maternal relatives but now refuses them any access whatsoever (won't even allow children to call their grandmother on her birthday).

The current order states "Mother is to have the children for 8 days in the summer. This time is to remain flexible once Mother gives Father 3 weeks notice and it does not conflict with a previously paid for vacation Father has planned. If Father’s Day falls during Mother’s 8 days, Mother agrees that the children can spend Father’s Day with their Father and that day will be made up the following day so that Mother maintains 8 full days. For future years Mother and Father agree to come to a mutually agreeable summer vacation schedule. Father and Mother agree that is very important for the children to spend time in the summer with both sets of relatives and agree to cooperate and work together in good faith to achieve this."

Is there any way to enforce that last sentence? Thanks!


In a word?

Nope.

It's far too vague to be enforceable.
 
Are you trying to get visitation with grandparents/others ordered?
Yes, I am. I know it's almost impossible to force it legally that's why I'm hoping I can get him to stipulate. I'll offer a reduction in CS, or a reduction in my his share of add-ons (camps, tutoring, etc.) to bargain with him.
 
And get some legal assistance drafting your new stipulation, if either you or your ex drafted the last one ;)
well, sadly enough my $350/hour atty helped with the drafting. Dad and I actually wrote that sentence but the attorney plugged it in there without any comments.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
Yes, I am. I know it's almost impossible to force it legally that's why I'm hoping I can get him to stipulate. I'll offer a reduction in CS, or a reduction in my his share of add-ons (camps, tutoring, etc.) to bargain with him.


I'll be honest.

If I were the other parent, I'd fight that tooth and nail.

The grandparents and others are expected to visit the kids while the parent has parenting time.

I would NOT want to be bound by a court order.

And really, you are offering to lower child support in order to get your way? :confused:
 
I'll be honest.

If I were the other parent, I'd fight that tooth and nail.

The grandparents and others are expected to visit the kids while the parent has parenting time.

I would NOT want to be bound by a court order.

And really, you are offering to lower child support in order to get your way? :confused:
I've read on here about "sweetening the pot." That's what I'm trying to do. It's really no skin off his teeth to allow visits as he needs to work during the day anyway. It would help him and be less expensive for both of us then sending the children to the Y day camp. My family could potentially really help him and his wife out by picking the kids up from the Y, letting them have a date night, etc. I'm only asking for 1 or 2 visits during the entire summer. I honestly believe it would be beneficial to the children to see their grandmother and cousins and aunts and uncles. As they live in IL during the school year the summer is their only opportunity to see them.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
I've read on here about "sweetening the pot." That's what I'm trying to do. It's really no skin off his teeth to allow visits as he needs to work during the day anyway. It would help him and be less expensive for both of us then sending the children to the Y day camp. My family could potentially really help him and his wife out by picking the kids up from the Y, letting them have a date night, etc. I'm only asking for 1 or 2 visits during the entire summer. I honestly believe it would be beneficial to the children to see their grandmother and cousins and aunts and uncles. As they live in IL during the school year the summer is their only opportunity to see them.


I'm not disputing that it can be incredibly beneficial for the kids to have regular contact with extended family.

But to have it court-ordered? I'd SERIOUSLY fight that. What happens if there's a fight? A minor disagreement that turns into a whirlwind?

Would YOU really want to be bound by a court order forcing you to hand over your kids to a third party against your wishes?

Think about this seriously - and please, read posts from Rushia and liandrajade.

Third party visitation is no joke.
 
I'm not disputing that it can be incredibly beneficial for the kids to have regular contact with extended family.

But to have it court-ordered? I'd SERIOUSLY fight that. What happens if there's a fight? A minor disagreement that turns into a whirlwind?

Would YOU really want to be bound by a court order forcing you to hand over your kids to a third party against your wishes?

Think about this seriously - and please, read posts from Rushia and liandrajade.

Third party visitation is no joke.
Thanks Prosperina, I suppose you are right - I wouldn't want a court order forcing me to turn the kids over to their evil aunt E :p. I will see if Dad and I can talk about it rationally and informally. Moving away from my home state has been for the most part great but not having family nearby is terrible.
 

CourtClerk

Senior Member
I'm not disputing that it can be incredibly beneficial for the kids to have regular contact with extended family.

But to have it court-ordered? I'd SERIOUSLY fight that. What happens if there's a fight? A minor disagreement that turns into a whirlwind?

Would YOU really want to be bound by a court order forcing you to hand over your kids to a third party against your wishes?

Think about this seriously - and please, read posts from Rushia and liandrajade.

Third party visitation is no joke.
If I were dad, hell would have to freeze over 3 times in rapid succession before I'd sign that.
 
My visitation time - restricted?

Hi all,

I have a new question. The children are in CA with their father for summer visitation. Our order gives me 8 days of summer vacation out there. I can't be there this year but I want to use my visitation time to have the children stay with my family out there. I was under the impression that I get to use my 8 days as I see fit. But father is saying forget it - If I'm not there personally he will not let me have my eight days. Can he refuse to let the children go with my family?
 

Ohiogal

Queen Bee
Hi all,

I have a new question. The children are in CA with their father for summer visitation. Our order gives me 8 days of summer vacation out there. I can't be there this year but I want to use my visitation time to have the children stay with my family out there. I was under the impression that I get to use my 8 days as I see fit. But father is saying forget it - If I'm not there personally he will not let me have my eight days. Can he refuse to let the children go with my family?
Yep, unless the order specifically states that you can transfer your time to your parents or other family members. Your time is for you -- not for you to give to your family. If you were there, you could let them see your family.
 

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