Evolution/Creationism question...

[CarlyleII]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Arkansas

This is not a pressing issue (I probably won't take it to the capitol - actually maybe one day) but if you have time I wouldn't mind an opinion, I know y'all aren't gettin paid here. I'm only asking here because now I know you exist and you might have a better understanding.

I was arguing with a teacher about this Missing Link

That's kind of old now. And long. So really basically: can't teach creationism, can't even give it equal time alongside evolution, so therefore - don't teach evolution very well. (so example might be - teach the most basic of the curriculum(if even) but if a kid wanted to focus on evolution in a project, they could be struck down. With lightening bolts I guess.)

I was arguing:
(A) Evolution not being taught properly because of religious pressure
Is the same as
(B) Creationism not being allowed to be taught because of the religion behind it

My point was - the influence of religion, in a public school, was the problem. She says with (A) there's been no actual act that violates the law (only community pressure...?) as long as state curriculum requirements are met. So teaching the bare minimum, not havin open discussions, goin to external science places that take evolution out of play is all legal even though religion is actually driving it all? (just not on paper) - and she does say 'good luck proving it'.

If a teacher got fired because they spent too long teaching evolution wouldn't they have a real good reason to sue? (I guess the school wouldn't be real open about real reasons tho)

Please tell me the loophole for boosting "creation science" over evolution is not that easy to find??

I hope I make sense with the question.

This isn't homework by the way (it's just something that annoys me) and not even from class. This was just a conversation in homeroom. Which I went to. On time.

(please don't just say, you can not FORCE the school to teach evolution. lol - actually, my school's ok at it anyway)

 

[TheGeekess]

One is a scientific theory, the other is not.

 

[CarlyleII]

One is a scientific theory, the other is not.

Yeh.

And the scientific theory is being....hmmm...'moderated' (I guess) by religion in some places. Which seems.....wrong.

 

[I'mTheFather]

I think that's an interesting question, actually, and I'm glad you were on time for homeroom.

Have you checked your state standards for science? If your school is covering all that's required regarding evolution, then there probably isn't much to argue about. If they aren't, then you might be able to move up the food chain with your argument.

I wonder if this is so different from schools that still allow Christmas parties versus those that don't. The typical reason has to do with the community of which the school is a part.

 

[TheGeekess]

I think that's an interesting question, actually, and I'm glad you were on time for homeroom.

Have you checked your state standards for science? If your school is covering all that's required regarding evolution, then there probably isn't much to argue about. If they aren't, then you might be able to move up the food chain with your argument.

I wonder if this is so different from schools that still allow Christmas parties versus those that don't. The typical reason has to do with the community of which the school is a part.

And how many atheists are around.

Muslims and Jews don't care if the birth of Christianity's Savior is celebrated. Neither do Pagans.

Muslims see Jesus as a prophet. Some Jewish sects consider Jesus a great teacher (but not the SoG). .

 

[I'mTheFather]

And how many atheists are around.

Muslims and Jews don't care if the birth of Christianity's Savior is celebrated. Neither do Pagans.

Muslims see Jesus as a prophet. Some Jewish sects consider Jesus a great teacher (but not the SoG). .

Yes, that was my point.

 

[CarlyleII]

I think that's an interesting question, actually, and I'm glad you were on time for homeroom.

Have you checked your state standards for science? If your school is covering all that's required regarding evolution, then there probably isn't much to argue about. If they aren't, then you might be able to move up the food chain with your argument.

I wonder if this is so different from schools that still allow Christmas parties versus those that don't. The typical reason has to do with the community of which the school is a part.

I'm not sure where to find the state standards yet. I think my school probably does ok (only 'ok') - but not all do. My littlest brothers' school don't seem very good (but I don't know the actual standards).

This started with someone mentioning the "God particle" - cos homeroom teacher's a science teacher. It was weird, some people in the class were basically like 'blasphemy' - and it went from there to creationism, and that article. The 'blasphemy' kids were sort of giving us all evil eyes...our teacher was being pretty thoughtful about anything she said...it was a bit weird (not my first weird experience with evolution...).

I guess it is sort of like Christmas parties with the community influencing it (schools around here still have Christmas parties...you might have guessed...). It's a bit scary that they can influence as much as that article points out...it seems to go against religion not supposed to influence...

 

[TheGeekess]

I'm not sure where to find the state standards yet. I think my school probably does ok (only 'ok') - but not all do. My littlest brothers' school don't seem very good (but I don't know the actual standards).

This started with someone mentioning the "God particle" - cos homeroom teacher's a science teacher. It was weird, some people in the class were basically like 'blasphemy' - and it went from there to creationism, and that article. The 'blasphemy' kids were sort of giving us all evil eyes...our teacher was being pretty thoughtful about anything she said...it was a bit weird (not my first weird experience with evolution...).

I guess it is sort of like Christmas parties with the community influencing it (schools around here still have Christmas parties...you might have guessed...). It's a bit scary that they can influence as much as that article points out...it seems to go against religion not supposed to influence...

The 'God' particle has naught to do with evolution. It's a subatomic particle that has been looked for by physicists for years.

What's supposed to go against religion? All the First Amendment says about religion is that Congress shall not establish a state religion and cannot halt the free exercise of religion.

 

[CarlyleII]

The 'God' particle has naught to do with evolution. It's a subatomic particle that has been looked for by physicists for years.

Yeh, it has more to do with creationism which then has something to do with evolution. It's all kind of related.

What's supposed to go against religion? All the First Amendment says about religion is that Congress shall not establish a state religion and cannot halt the free exercise of religion.

But the reason 'creation science' can't be taught in schools is because of the religious background to it. So, for the same reason, religion shouldn't be able to influence evolution being taught in the ways that the article points out it does. Yeh?

 

[TheGeekess]

Yeh, it has more to do with creationism which then has something to do with evolution. It's all kind of related.



But the reason 'creation science' can't be taught in schools is because of the religious background to it. So, for the same reason, religion shouldn't be able to influence evolution being taught in the ways that the article points out it does. Yeh?

The 'God' particle has naught to do with creationism, either.

You don't have the understanding or knowledge to truly debate these issues.

 

[CarlyleII]

The 'God' particle has naught to do with creationism, either.

You don't have the understanding or knowledge to truly debate these issues.

Ummm....how does the "God particle" have NOTHING to do with creationism? Try tellin that to some people around here...

Anyway, this is not actually about the "God particle". Not actually about creationism. Not actually about evolution.

It's about religion influencing what's taught in public schools. About belief shaping how stuff is taught when I'm pretty sure it ain't meant to...

 

[ecmst12]

High school students generally lack the capacity and patience to truly study evolution anyway. All anyone gets in high school is an overview. If you really want to go in depth into it, you need to wait for college. I took a really fascinating course on it there.

 

[Antigone*]

You cannot FORCE the principal to whip you.


Oh wait, we resolved that issue didn't we

 

[CarlyleII]

High school students generally lack the capacity and patience to truly study evolution anyway. All anyone gets in high school is an overview. If you really want to go in depth into it, you need to wait for college. I took a really fascinating course on it there.

Well....that's probably true. As long as the 'overview' happens like it should.

You cannot FORCE the principal to whip you.


Oh wait, we resolved that issue didn't we

Yes. We found out he doesn't need any help from anyone in regards to 'force'.

 

[Humusluvr]

I actually have a science degree, and now I educate science teachers on how to teach science.

What is science? It's the collection of evidence, come to a conclusion, collect more evidence, modify your conclusion, add in some more evidence - you see the pattern here?

What does "creation science" say? We will search for only the evidence that supports a foregone conclusion - that the Earth and all the living things were created by some mystical being that no one can see. If some evidence is found that doesn't support that conclusion, the evidence must be wrong.

Evolution is THE MOST studied phenomenon in all of science. We know how evolution has changed the living things on Earth better than ANYTHING else. But woefully, MOST Biology teachers have NEVER taken a course on evolution. They don't understand how it works. If understanding how evolution worked was REQUIRED to be a prereq to be a Biology teacher, and I argue it should, then our students wouldn't be caught in this mess. A misunderstanding of "what is science?" is a travesty.

Religion is about faith. There are many faiths, which is why Judeo-Christian cannot be taught in public schools. Evolution is science. People believe in religion, they understand (or don't understand) evolution.

This is one of the best articles I have ever read about the debate between creationists and evolutionists. http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/wackononsense.pdf

Pardon the inflammatory title.