Extra charges

[dspratley]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
I moved into this house at the beginning February 2011. We are out in the country, and are on propane. We signed our lease agreement in January, at which time we gave our security deposit and first month rent. According to the lease agreement, we are responsible for paying all utilities.
2 weeks after our move in date, the landlord walked us around and showed us shut off valves on both the house and the propane tank. When he showed us the tank, he let us know that it was 60% full. When we asked how we go about having it filled, he said that we just have to call when the tank gets low. When that happened, I called the company and set up an account. The driver came out, refilled the tank and let me know that the propane that was in the tank when we moved in was put in at no charge.
A couple of days ago (4 months after we moved in), we received a letter from our landlord informing us that we owe him $567, due in 2 weeks for the propane that was in the tank when we moved in. I feel like this should have been disclosed up front. Are we obligated to pay this?

 

[sandyclaus]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
I moved into this house at the beginning February 2011. We are out in the country, and are on propane. We signed our lease agreement in January, at which time we gave our security deposit and first month rent. According to the lease agreement, we are responsible for paying all utilities.
2 weeks after our move in date, the landlord walked us around and showed us shut off valves on both the house and the propane tank. When he showed us the tank, he let us know that it was 60% full. When we asked how we go about having it filled, he said that we just have to call when the tank gets low. When that happened, I called the company and set up an account. The driver came out, refilled the tank and let me know that the propane that was in the tank when we moved in was put in at no charge.
A couple of days ago (4 months after we moved in), we received a letter from our landlord informing us that we owe him $567, due in 2 weeks for the propane that was in the tank when we moved in. I feel like this should have been disclosed up front. Are we obligated to pay this?

The LL should have disclosed that he was going to charge you for the existing propane in the tanks, especially when mentioning that the tanks were already 60% full when you moved in. The lease needed to state this fact, and the fact that you would be charged for the existing propane in the tanks when you moved in in order to be a valid charge.

Additionally, I would question the fact that LL is trying to charge you for the propane when the propane company driver told you that it had been put in at no charge. You need to get something in writing (if you can) from the propane company to confirm this, then ask the LL why he thinks he can charge you for something he got for free. LL *MIGHT* be able to argue that you received something that he paid for if he can prove that he actually paid for it, but NOT if he didn't.

 

[Searchertwin]

No one gets propane free. Driver stated, "we moved in was put in at no charge." Free delivery.

And the tenant should know if there is propane in the tank, they will have to reinburse the LL the same amount when they leave. Common sense.
That's why the LL mention the 60% and I am SURE, he indicated that the amount of propane have to be the same amount when they leave.

 

[dspratley]

extra charges

Actually, what the driver said was that he put 200 free gallons of propane in the tank in January. There is no way to misunderstand that. I have no idea why they did that, but they did.
And as far as your "common sense" comment, no, it is not common that someone who moves from the city would know how and when the propane tank fillings take place.
My assumption was that the tank was 60% full, and we would leave it 60% full upon our vacating the property. (which I intend to do)
If we were intended to pay for the propane that was in the tank when we moved in, we should have been informed of that upon signing the lease and been made to pay it up front along with the first month rent and deposit, not get billed for it 4 months down the road.
Am I wrong?

 

[murphycat]

Sometimes, the most reasonable answer is the right one. Who lived there before you moved in? If it was another tenant, I'd have to assume they actually paid for what left in the tank, OR, get a statement from the propane company about the free fill, etc.

I sure wouldn't pay it. and Sure wouldn't pay it without a legitate invoice from the propane company with LL name on the bill.

I think you'd really better watch your back with this guy. Hope you took pictures of the place when you moved in. If not, do it now.

 

[Searchertwin]

Actually, what the driver said was that he put 200 free gallons of propane in the tank in January. There is no way to misunderstand that. I have no idea why they did that, but they did.
And as far as your "common sense" comment, no, it is not common that someone who moves from the city would know how and when the propane tank fillings take place.
My assumption was that the tank was 60% full, and we would leave it 60% full upon our vacating the property. (which I intend to do)
If we were intended to pay for the propane that was in the tank when we moved in, we should have been informed of that upon signing the lease and been made to pay it up front along with the first month rent and deposit, not get billed for it 4 months down the road.
Am I wrong?

If the driver said that, than he has to be wrong. No one gets propane free, free delivery, yes, but not the propane.
Sorry, but common sense still applies. If tank is empty you have to fill it.

And can the LL bill you for the propane, yes. Why? YOU stated, "According to the lease agreement, we are responsible for paying all utilities.
Propane is an utility. So did LL inform you? Yes. Are you aware that you have to pay for it? Yes. Why? Did you sign the lease? That's why

BUT, if the propane was free to the LL, can the LL charge you for the propane? Yes. Why? Because it is his tank, his gas.
If you do not want to use his tank, his gas, than you need to order your own propane tank and fill it yourself.

Either you accept it or not. BUT you did sign the lease stating that you will pay for all utilities.
Can he charge me 4 months down the road? Yes. Why? Because you have not yet paid for it.

 

[Searchertwin]

Sometimes, the most reasonable answer is the right one. Who lived there before you moved in? If it was another tenant, I'd have to assume they actually paid for what left in the tank, OR, get a statement from the propane company about the free fill, etc.

I sure wouldn't pay it. and Sure wouldn't pay it without a legitate invoice from the propane company with LL name on the bill.

I think you'd really better watch your back with this guy. Hope you took pictures of the place when you moved in. If not, do it now.

I agree to taking pictures, but the LL has not done anything wrong here.
Advising tenant not to pay for an utility that she agree to in the lease that she signed is wrong advice.

 

[justalayman]

I believe there was a serious miscommunication with the delivery guy. As searchertwin stated, nobody gives away $500 worth of LP.

I suspect what happened is since the OP had not set up an account the LL was billed for the gas in the tank. He does have a right to pass that charge on to the OP (although I would argue with the due in 2 weeks thing. He would have been billed months ago and needed to present the bill then).

 

[Searchertwin]

I believe there was a serious miscommunication with the delivery guy. As searchertwin stated, nobody gives away $500 worth of LP.

I suspect what happened is since the OP had not set up an account the LL was billed for the gas in the tank. He does have a right to pass that charge on to the OP (although I would argue with the due in 2 weeks thing. He would have been billed months ago and needed to present the bill then).

I can't believe you agree with me! If one of those icons had it where it blew a kiss, it would be inserted here.

 

[justalayman]

I can't believe you agree with me! If one of those icons had it where it blew a kiss, it would be inserted here.

well, ya got to be realistic on this one. A gas company giving away over $500 worth of gas? Hell, I've been with the same company for 15 years and all I get free is a calender.

 

[dspratley]

extra charges

Okay, regardless of whether the gas was free (for the LL) or not, I feel like he should have disclosed the fact that he was going to charge us for it up front. And probably even done so when we signed the lease.
I think you all are under the assumption that I'm trying to get free gas. That is not the case. I moved in with the tank 60% full, and I intend to leave the tank 60% full. I think, as with all rentals, you leave things the way you found them.

 

[FarmerJ]

If the LL has you pay for what was in the tank at the time you moved in then when the time comes that you begin to think about non renewal you should plan your last delivery or two to be smaller ones otherwise any fuel you leave behind in all fairness you should be reimbursed for.