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Failure to stop at Red Arrow

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Chicagi23

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

Just wanted some advise. I was involved in a car accident in Norwalk, CA about a month ago. I was making a left turn at an arrow, which was yellow. As I was in the intersection the light turned green for the opposing traffic and I was hit by a truck that began to go because he had a Green light. I received a police report from the sheriffs department today stating that all 3 witnesses for the accident (truck that hit me, car making a right and a pedestrian) stated that they had a Green and I had ran the red arrow. They also had my statement which read that I stated "I was out of it" and I noticed I was in the intersection when the turn arrow was Red. I also received based on the police report a citation for "Failure to stop at a red arrow" I have a court date in December, but I know I had a yellow arrow when I entered the intersection. What should I do?
 


justalayman

Senior Member
So three witnesses, two that have no horse in the race, in concurrence in their statements and in contrast to yours. Kind of difficult to beat that. Unless there is a camera at the intersection and the video is still available and that exonerates you I don't see any chance of you beating the ticket.


Your own statement suggests you were aware the arrow was red. Even if you had entered while green or yellow you could not make that statement unless you have eyes in some weird places. You can deduce or presume the arrow changed to red but would not be able to state you were in the intersection with a red arrow unless it was red when you entered the intersection on a red arrow.
 

Chicagi23

Junior Member
I know the arrow was yellow as I entered the intersection, and the only reason I know it turned red was the second signal to the left, the arrow turned red while I was in the intersection. I do agree about the 2 other witnesses stating the same thing, but I guess my point is, does failure to stop at a red arrow include entering the intersection on a yellow? I do acknowledge that I should not have entered the intersection if I did not know for sure I could clear it before the light turned green, but I do not feel I ran a red arrow. Should I just take the ticket and ask for traffic school? Will that reduce some of the points on my record now?
 

Indiana Filer

Senior Member
I know the arrow was yellow as I entered the intersection, and the only reason I know it turned red was the second signal to the left, the arrow turned red while I was in the intersection. I do agree about the 2 other witnesses stating the same thing, but I guess my point is, does failure to stop at a red arrow include entering the intersection on a yellow? I do acknowledge that I should not have entered the intersection if I did not know for sure I could clear it before the light turned green, but I do not feel I ran a red arrow. Should I just take the ticket and ask for traffic school? Will that reduce some of the points on my record now?
You aren't supposed to ENTER the intersection on yellow. You should have stopped.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
You aren't supposed to ENTER the intersection on yellow. You should have stopped.
Here in CA, if the OP actually entered the intersection on the yellow then he's allowed to proceed through even if it turns red. There is a separate violation for blocking the intersection when doing this, but it's not "running the red". The OP's problem is that there are several witnesses who say that he entered the intersection after the light had turned to red.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Correct - yellow does not require one to stop before they enter the intersection. However, assuming that the timing on the lights was correct, the OP was traveling at a safe and reasonable speed during the turn, and the intersection was clear for his turn, he should have easily cleared the intersection by the time the opposing traffic received a green light and had a chance to proceed far enough into the intersection to strike a turning vehicle. I would have to see the intersection, gather the measurements, and know the timing of the lights to be certain, but I suspect some quick calculations may show that the OP almost certainly ran the red light.

@Chicagi23 - what part of the oncoming vehicle struck what part of your vehicle? And how many lanes of oncoming traffic were there, and in which lane was the oncoming vehicle in when he struck you?
 

Just Blue

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

Just wanted some advise. I was involved in a car accident in Norwalk, CA about a month ago. I was making a left turn at an arrow, which was yellow. As I was in the intersection the light turned green for the opposing traffic and I was hit by a truck that began to go because he had a Green light. I received a police report from the sheriffs department today stating that all 3 witnesses for the accident (truck that hit me, car making a right and a pedestrian) stated that they had a Green and I had ran the red arrow. They also had my statement which read that I stated "I was out of it" and I noticed I was in the intersection when the turn arrow was Red. I also received based on the police report a citation for "Failure to stop at a red arrow" I have a court date in December, but I know I had a yellow arrow when I entered the intersection. What should I do?
Yellow means "caution". You, apparently, did not use caution. Per your own comments on this thread.
 

davew128

Senior Member
You aren't supposed to ENTER the intersection on yellow. You should have stopped.
Common sense alone would indicate that you're wrong. If someone is travelling at the speed limit (say 30mph) and the light turns yellow when they are 20 feet from the intersection, please don't tell me you expect the car to stop before entering the intersection without the tires leaving half of their rubber on the street as skid marks.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
21452. (a) A driver facing a steady circular yellow or yellow arrow
signal is, by that signal, warned that the related green movement is
ending or that a red indication will be shown immediately
thereafter.
(b) A pedestrian facing a steady circular yellow or a yellow arrow
signal, unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian control signal as
provided in Section 21456, is, by that signal, warned that there is
insufficient time to cross the roadway and shall not enter the
roadway.

by that signal the driver is warned the related green movement is ending. Not that it has ended.

and for all you folks that have a problem with entering an intersection with a yellow light;

them must be some damn good brakes you have. There are times where I have been close enough to the intersection when the light turned yellow that I know I could not stop without entering the intersection.
 

Indiana Filer

Senior Member
Here in CA, if the OP actually entered the intersection on the yellow then he's allowed to proceed through even if it turns red. There is a separate violation for blocking the intersection when doing this, but it's not "running the red". The OP's problem is that there are several witnesses who say that he entered the intersection after the light had turned to red.
Seriously? Wow.

Not as surprising to me as the fact that motorcycles are allowed to zoom down the highway between lanes of traffic.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
However, one must also be able to complete the turn BEFORE they enter the intersection. In other words, you cannot enter the intersection and obstruct cross traffic if it is not possible to complete the turn safely. This keeps people from slipping past that limit line into an intersection already clogged with cars making a left turn onto a crowded street. Well, actually, it doesn't stop people from doing it because this is rarely cited as the cops would only ADD to the congestion if they did it, and, well, there's never a cop around when you want one. :)
 

justalayman

Senior Member
Seriously? Wow.

Not as surprising to me as the fact that motorcycles are allowed to zoom down the highway between lanes of traffic.
I may have already posted this but just in case I didn't

(2) Steady yellow indication means the following:
(A) Vehicular traffic facing a steady circular yellow or yellow arrow signal is warned that the related green movement is being terminated and that a red indication will be exhibited immediately thereafter.
(B) A pedestrian facing a steady circular yellow or yellow arrow signal, unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian control signal, is advised that there is insufficient time to cross the roadway before a red indication is shown, and a pedestrian may not start to cross the roadway at that time.
Oh wait. That was California's code I posted. This one is:


IC 9-21-3-7


want to guess what that I in the IC stands for Indiana Filer? I'll give you a hint. It's not Iowa, Illinois, or Idaho.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
Heh. What I meant to say is that out here you cannot enter the intersection to begin the turn unless it can be completed ... i.e. the turn will be unhindered.
I know what you meant Carl but what fun is it if I don't pick on you?


but along those lines; how hard of a line is typically drawn there. After all, it is kind of a judgment call to hit the brakes hard or figure I should just go through the light (likely because some guy behind me is going to stick his car up my bumper if I hit the brakes too hard).
 

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