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Failure to Yield to crossing guard that wasn't there

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Jite

Active Member
What is the name of your state?California Orange county

I was driving my fiancé to work at about 7:45am. I had just turned onto my street heading right (East) from the right most driveway from my apartment complex (there are 3, starting from the west to East). There is a sign that is lit up saying “school zone” from the middle one on towards the east. A crossing guard was preparing to cross the street (they were waiting for enough children/adults to gather so they could take a larger group across). Suddenly we heard a whistle from the crossing guard who had not raised his stop sign or put his hand out or walked onto the road yet (so he was still on the sidewalk). This crossing guard usually blows the whistle to warn drivers that he is about to walk into the road (kind of like a yellow light), crosses with the group to the middle of the road, then remains there until the last person walking reaches the sidewalk and then returns to the original side of the road. An officer was at this crosswalk intersection but he was facing south. He then pulled me over and said that I failed to yield to the crossing guard. When I said he wasn’t in the road yet and I couldn’t stop less than 10 feet from the intersection, he claimed I had 5 seconds to react to whistle, despite it being misty (barely raining off and on) and a car tailgating me.

What are some arguments I can make? Does a crossing guard need to be in the road with the sign raised? What evidence does the prosecution (aka the city) need to show that I actually didn’t yield (such as dash cam from the officer, local cameras etc)?

I also found this part from the California Vehicle Code 2815: "Any person who shall disregard any traffic signal or direction given by a [crossing guard] ... when the guard is wearing the official insignia of such a school crossing guard, and when in the course of the guard's duties the guard is protecting any person in crossing a street or highway in the vicinity of a school or while returning thereafter to a place of safety" I think the officer fails to establish this.
 


HighwayMan

Super Secret Senior Member
Was there a collision involved? Just wondering since you posted to the auto accident/vehicle claims area of the forum.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
If you were only ten feet away from the crosswalk and traveling at a normal rate of speed when the whistle was blown, then that is really the only defense that I see you having.
 

Jite

Active Member
If you were only ten feet away from the crosswalk and traveling at a normal rate of speed when the whistle was blown, then that is really the only defense that I see you having.
Yeah I was very close. I was going the speed limit or lower. My thoughts were to say that since they werent in the road yet, maybe just stepped off, didnt have their sign or hand up and the whistle was the only thing I was goign to claim the prosecution failed to provide enough evidence. Also my fiance will testify to as my witness.
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
An officer was at this crosswalk intersection but he was facing south. He then pulled me over and said that I failed to yield to the crossing guard. When I said he wasn’t in the road yet and I couldn’t stop less than 10 feet from the intersection, he claimed I had 5 seconds to react to whistle, despite it being misty (barely raining off and on) and a car tailgating me.

What are some arguments I can make? Does a crossing guard need to be in the road with the sign raised? What evidence does the prosecution (aka the city) need to show that I actually didn’t yield (such as dash cam from the officer, local cameras etc)?

I also found this part from the California Vehicle Code 2815: "Any person who shall disregard any traffic signal or direction given by a [crossing guard] ... when the guard is wearing the official insignia of such a school crossing guard, and when in the course of the guard's duties the guard is protecting any person in crossing a street or highway in the vicinity of a school or while returning thereafter to a place of safety" I think the officer fails to establish this.
If it's misty, you should be driving slow enough to compensate for the reduced visibility. So unless you want the book thrown at you, don't mention that.

And the tailgating car is the tailgater's problem. Failing to yield is your problem.

Did the crossing guard concur with the officer, or did the crossing guard indicate that he was actually whistling at the tailgater? Did the tailgater stop?
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Yeah I was very close. I was going the speed limit or lower. My thoughts were to say that since they werent in the road yet, maybe just stepped off, didnt have their sign or hand up and the whistle was the only thing I was goign to claim the prosecution failed to provide enough evidence. Also my fiance will testify to as my witness.
If you go to court with the story that the crossing guard may, in fact, have stepped off the curb, then you will lose.

Your fiance's testimony won't be worth anything - she is a biased witness.
 

Jite

Active Member
If it's misty, you should be driving slow enough to compensate for the reduced visibility. So unless you want the book thrown at you, don't mention that.

And the tailgating car is the tailgater's problem. Failing to yield is your problem.

Did the crossing guard concur with the officer, or did the crossing guard indicate that he was actually whistling at the tailgater? Did the tailgater stop?
How do I find out what the crossing guard said? I'm not sure if it's tailgating but someone was driving close enough so that 1. if i had stopped when i heard the whistle they would have rear ended me and i would have been forced further into the intersection. 2. the mist was because it was early and had begun to start raining. was pretty clear but i had just pulled out so I hadn't even begun to adjust my speed yet. I'd like to find out if I can get the crossing guard to appear too?
 

Jite

Active Member
If you go to court with the story that the crossing guard may, in fact, have stepped off the curb, then you will lose.

Your fiance's testimony won't be worth anything - she is a biased witness.
That's what I'm also trying to learn. Do they have to have the sign up or start walking? because stepping off to me is just them about to raise the sign. sometimes they step off then raise the sign,, other times they raise the sign before stepping off. oh and I heard even biased witnesses count as evidence on my side. not sure how effective they are.
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
How do I find out what the crossing guard said? I'm not sure if it's tailgating but someone was driving close enough so that 1. if i had stopped when i heard the whistle they would have rear ended me and i would have been forced further into the intersection. 2. the mist was because it was early and had begun to start raining. was pretty clear but i had just pulled out so I hadn't even begun to adjust my speed yet. I'd like to find out if I can get the crossing guard to appear too?
Legally, that is not something that you are expected to take into account.

If someone rear ends you because they fail to maintain a safe distance, that is their fault, not yours.

Seriously, that's not the argument to go with. If you stop for school kids and get rear ended, you're a good guy.
 

Jite

Active Member
Legally, that is not something that you are expected to take into account.

If someone rear ends you because they fail to maintain a safe distance, that is their fault, not yours.

Seriously, that's not the argument to go with. If you stop for school kids and get rear ended, you're a good guy.
Yeah I see what you're saying but my thoughts were that if there had been kids I would have ran them over or been in the crosswalk. But still didn't have any time to react either way since the only indication of a guard was that pre-walk whistle
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
Yeah I see what you're saying but my thoughts were that if there had been kids I would have ran them over or been in the crosswalk. But still didn't have any time to react either way since the only indication of a guard was that pre-walk whistle
You are digging a deeper and deeper hole for yourself.

5 seconds is plenty of time in a school zone.
 

Jite

Active Member
You are digging a deeper and deeper hole for yourself.

5 seconds is plenty of time in a school zone.
I think it was less than 5 seconds. i can't even hear the whistle and push the brake that quickly. Besides, the exit for my apartment is in the school zone. Also should I mention there weren't any kids around?
 

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