Father-in-law about to pass... Question about his will and my wife on deed to his house

[Infl8dEgo]

(Sorry mods if this doesn't belong in this forum. Please feel free to move to a more appropriate one)

We live in PA.

My father-in-law is about to pass. At the hospital, he had a family lawyer come in and complete his will, making my sister-in-law the PoA and Executor of the will.

Backstory:
He had 4 houses his life, two of which he gave to his two oldest sons, leaving his main home and his vacation house. He always stated that he was going to leave the two other houses to the girls, my wife and her younger sister. In his will we know he left the main home to the youngest sister (the PoA and Executor). A few years back my wife and I purchased our first home and soon after he was talking to us about selling his vacation house because no one really went up to it anymore. Once he started getting ill there were attempts to sell it by the second oldest brother but he was unable to do so (asking for too much and turning down all offers).

This morning my sister-in-law told my wife that, while going through his documents to understand his debts and what assets he has, found a notarized document my father-in-law and my wife signed in 2005 placing her on the deed to the vacation house. My wife had forgot about it completely. The vacation house is fully paid off but the main home has around $50k left on it (which my sister-in-law is going to live in now). We are still trying to get an idea of his total net worth at this moment. So we aren't sure how much, if anything, will be left after funeral expenses and any debts are paid with his remaining assets at this time.

Here are my questions:
What happens if the vacation house is not in the will and my wife is on the deed?
Is it subject to debt payments to credit cards forcing my wife to sell?
If he wanted all assets not listed in the deed to be split among the children, does this also include the vacation home?

My wife, sister-in-law and I simply aren't sure how this home comes into the will and how it is dealt with if it wasn't specifically mentioned?

Unfortunately, when assets and money come into the picture there may be those looking to claim items which they don't have rights to. My sister-in-law and wife are doing what we can to prevent that....

Thanks for any help.

 

[Ohiogal]

(Sorry mods if this doesn't belong in this forum. Please feel free to move to a more appropriate one)

We live in PA.

My father-in-law is about to pass. At the hospital, he had a family lawyer come in and complete his will, making my sister-in-law the PoA and Executor of the will.

Backstory:
He had 4 houses his life, two of which he gave to his two oldest sons, leaving his main home and his vacation house. He always stated that he was going to leave the two other houses to the girls, my wife and her younger sister. In his will we know he left the main home to the youngest sister (the PoA and Executor). A few years back my wife and I purchased our first home and soon after he was talking to us about selling his vacation house because no one really went up to it anymore. Once he started getting ill there were attempts to sell it by the second oldest brother but he was unable to do so (asking for too much and turning down all offers).

This morning my sister-in-law told my wife that, while going through his documents to understand his debts and what assets he has, found a notarized document my father-in-law and my wife signed in 2005 placing her on the deed to the vacation house. My wife had forgot about it completely. The vacation house is fully paid off but the main home has around $50k left on it (which my sister-in-law is going to live in now). We are still trying to get an idea of his total net worth at this moment. So we aren't sure how much, if anything, will be left after funeral expenses and any debts are paid with his remaining assets at this time.

Here are my questions:
What happens if the vacation house is not in the will and my wife is on the deed?
Is it subject to debt payments to credit cards forcing my wife to sell?
If he wanted all assets not listed in the deed to be split among the children, does this also include the vacation home?

My wife, sister-in-law and I simply aren't sure how this home comes into the will and how it is dealt with if it wasn't specifically mentioned?

Unfortunately, when assets and money come into the picture there may be those looking to claim items which they don't have rights to. My sister-in-law and wife are doing what we can to prevent that....

Thanks for any help.

How is your wife on the deed? JTRS or some other way? Depending on the deed that determines to the answer to the rest of the questions.

 

[LdiJ]

(Sorry mods if this doesn't belong in this forum. Please feel free to move to a more appropriate one)

We live in PA.

My father-in-law is about to pass. At the hospital, he had a family lawyer come in and complete his will, making my sister-in-law the PoA and Executor of the will.

Backstory:
He had 4 houses his life, two of which he gave to his two oldest sons, leaving his main home and his vacation house. He always stated that he was going to leave the two other houses to the girls, my wife and her younger sister. In his will we know he left the main home to the youngest sister (the PoA and Executor). A few years back my wife and I purchased our first home and soon after he was talking to us about selling his vacation house because no one really went up to it anymore. Once he started getting ill there were attempts to sell it by the second oldest brother but he was unable to do so (asking for too much and turning down all offers).

This morning my sister-in-law told my wife that, while going through his documents to understand his debts and what assets he has, found a notarized document my father-in-law and my wife signed in 2005 placing her on the deed to the vacation house. My wife had forgot about it completely. The vacation house is fully paid off but the main home has around $50k left on it (which my sister-in-law is going to live in now). We are still trying to get an idea of his total net worth at this moment. So we aren't sure how much, if anything, will be left after funeral expenses and any debts are paid with his remaining assets at this time.

Here are my questions:
What happens if the vacation house is not in the will and my wife is on the deed?
Is it subject to debt payments to credit cards forcing my wife to sell?
If he wanted all assets not listed in the deed to be split among the children, does this also include the vacation home?

My wife, sister-in-law and I simply aren't sure how this home comes into the will and how it is dealt with if it wasn't specifically mentioned?

Unfortunately, when assets and money come into the picture there may be those looking to claim items which they don't have rights to. My sister-in-law and wife are doing what we can to prevent that....

Thanks for any help.

Much depends on how the deed is worded. At minimum, your wife owns a share (presumably half but it feasibly could be something else) in the vacation home and would therefore be entitled to a share of any proceeds if its sold. Your wife's share would not be part of the estate.

In a best case scenario it would be your wife's property free and clear at this point. You probably want an attorney to review the deed and give your wife and her sister advice.

 

[Infl8dEgo]

How is your wife on the deed? JTRS or some other way? Depending on the deed that determines to the answer to the rest of the questions.

OK, I'm looking into that now.

 

[Infl8dEgo]

Much depends on how the deed is worded. At minimum, your wife owns a share (presumably half but it feasibly could be something else) in the vacation home and would therefore be entitled to a share of any proceeds if its sold. Your wife's share would not be part of the estate.

In a best case scenario it would be your wife's property free and clear at this point. You probably want an attorney to review the deed and give your wife and her sister advice.

Thanks for your reply.

Ideally she wants to keep it in the family and her sister would rather that too. This may not be necessarily what others want, hence my questions...

 

[adjusterjack]

You refer to:

a notarized document my father-in-law and my wife signed in 2005 placing her on the deed to the vacation house.

But you don't refer to the document itself as a "deed."

You are going to have to check the county recorder to make sure you have the ACTUAL recorded deed conveying ownership from your FIL to your FIL and your wife and then reveal how the ownership reads.

 

[Infl8dEgo]

You refer to:



But you don't refer to the document itself as a "deed."

You are going to have to check the county recorder to make sure you have the ACTUAL recorded deed conveying ownership from your FIL to your FIL and your wife and then reveal how the ownership reads.

I did a deed search for the county the home is located in as well as in our county. I didn't have actual access to the physical deed here while I'm at work, so I figured that was the next best option for right now to reply to some of these replies.

The deed is odd, because it does state my FiL & wife and refer to them as "Tennants in Common". So that does answer the question before. After doing research on that further as I understand it his "half" is subject to any stipulations of assets stated in his will. So I'm assuming whatever his portion is it is subject to the division among siblings. Other than this deed and our home, her name is not on any other property that I can find. The odd thing is that as I read through it most, if not all, is in regards to the land and coal mining operations along with a specified amount of money in it which is a fraction of what the home is worth. So now I'm more confused.

This vacation home also has numerous other plots of land adjacent to it that he had purchased. It appears that there are other deeds for these lots where he paid and once he satisfied them there were some quitclaim deeds for $1 to those owners giving him ownership. There is more than I thought involved here obviously...

 

[xylene]

1. It is good to be prepared, but all this will be sorted in time.

2. Bluntly, it is incredibly difficult to keep a vacation property shared among family after the death of a family elder. The primary owner has all the work, other family members feel slighted about use (justifiably or not) and if you live there you'll be expected to accommodate company at any time for any duration. That's beyond just the complexities of a vacation home living there or not.

The desire to hold on to the legacy makes sense emotionally. But it won't be the same and it is really hard. Nostalgia for PapPap doesn't pay for a new roof. Ever seen an argument like that. It usually goes "I stay one week, Larry stays one week, and Sue stays 2 weeks, and pretty much you own the place the rest of the time. So last year we couldn't even come, so we'll pay 1/104 of the roof bill."

 

[Taxing Matters]

Here are my questions:
What happens if the vacation house is not in the will and my wife is on the deed?

If, as you indicate, the home is owned with just your dad and your wife as tenants in common (TIC) then what happens is that his share (generally half unless the deed or some agreement between them specifies otherwise) becomes part of his estate. In that case, if the will does not specifically mention who gets his part of the house then his part of the house becomes part of the estate residue. The estate residue is all the stuff that the decedent owned that was not mentioned separately for gifts in the will. Most wills (well written ones anyway) will have a provision that says what happens to the residue (though that term might not be used). For example, "All the rest of my estate is to be divided equally among my children." His share of the house would be included in that stuff for distribution per that clause. That does not necessarily mean that the house itself gets divided equally. If the residue consisted of cash of $100,000 and a half interest in a house worth $100,000 and there were two kids to split the residue the estate executor could just give all the cash to one kid and the half interest in the house house to the other. They both are getting half the value of the residue so that distribution would work. Your wife of course continues to own her half share as before whatever happens to his half.

If the home was held between them as joint tenants with a right of survivorship (JTWROS) the outcome would be that your wife would now be the sole owner of the home.

Is it subject to debt payments to credit cards forcing my wife to sell?

If they own it TIC and his share of the house goes to his estate then if the estate does not have sufficient assets to pay the debts without selling his share of the house then the executor will have to sell it. If your wife did not want to buy the interest from the estate herself and does not cooperate in selling the house, the executor can go to court to force a partition sale of the house by the court.

If they own it JTWROS then the home now belongs to your wife and is not subject to the claims of his unsecured creditors.

If he wanted all assets not listed in the [will] to be split among the children, does this also include the vacation home?

I changed your question by putting in the word "will" as I suspect that is what you meant. And if that was your question, that is answered above.

 

[Infl8dEgo]

If, as you indicate, the home is owned with just your dad and your wife as tenants in common (TIC) then what happens is that his share (generally half unless the deed or some agreement between them specifies otherwise) becomes part of his estate. In that case, if the will does not specifically mention who gets his part of the house then his part of the house becomes part of the estate residue. The estate residue is all the stuff that the decedent owned that was not mentioned separately for gifts in the will. Most wills (well written ones anyway) will have a provision that says what happens to the residue (though that term might not be used). For example, "All the rest of my estate is to be divided equally among my children." His share of the house would be included in that stuff for distribution per that clause. That does not necessarily mean that the house itself gets divided equally. If the residue consisted of cash of $100,000 and a half interest in a house worth $100,000 and there were two kids to split the residue the estate executor could just give all the cash to one kid and the half interest in the house house to the other. They both are getting half the value of the residue so that distribution would work. Your wife of course continues to own her half share as before whatever happens to his half.

If the home was held between them as joint tenants with a right of survivorship (JTWROS) the outcome would be that your wife would now be the sole owner of the home.



If they own it TIC and his share of the house goes to his estate then if the estate does not have sufficient assets to pay the debts without selling his share of the house then the executor will have to sell it. If your wife did not want to buy the interest from the estate herself and does not cooperate in selling the house, the executor can go to court to force a partition sale of the house by the court.

If they own it JTWROS then the home now belongs to your wife and is not subject to the claims of his unsecured creditors.



I changed your question by putting in the word "will" as I suspect that is what you meant. And if that was your question, that is answered above.

Really appreciate your help.

Yeah she has no problems with selling and cooperating with what is needed of her should it come down to the house needing to be sold to appease past debts and other things. I just was asking the immediate questions that came to my mind.

Again, great input!

 

[Infl8dEgo]

1. It is good to be prepared, but all this will be sorted in time.

2. Bluntly, it is incredibly difficult to keep a vacation property shared among family after the death of a family elder. The primary owner has all the work, other family members feel slighted about use (justifiably or not) and if you live there you'll be expected to accommodate company at any time for any duration. That's beyond just the complexities of a vacation home living there or not.

The desire to hold on to the legacy makes sense emotionally. But it won't be the same and it is really hard. Nostalgia for PapPap doesn't pay for a new roof. Ever seen an argument like that. It usually goes "I stay one week, Larry stays one week, and Sue stays 2 weeks, and pretty much you own the place the rest of the time. So last year we couldn't even come, so we'll pay 1/104 of the roof bill."

You brought up some great points. I can definitely see how that can cause issues down the road. I'll keep that in mind for this and similar matters that may come up.