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Final Walk Through and Return of Deposite Questions.

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ravenjinn

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Washington - Clallam County

We had a very eventful walk through over the weekend at our Single Family Home. The tenants attempted to aggressively snatch the walk through paper work from our hands and made physical contact in the process. They demanded to have their check on the spot and that "Nothing was wrong with the house." We had to leave the premises and get away from their verbal assaults and attempts at blocking our route to the car. The male Tenant then chased after us and found us parked on a side street not on the route to leave the Premises. He then turned toward us and went the wrong way down a one way street with his window down and driving aggressively fast to come up alongside where we had parked. We took off in our car for fear he had a gun and he proceeded to whip around chase us for about a mile and right off our bumper before realizing we were on the phone with the Police and requesting help. Note we have the entire altercation on video and tape recorder.

We had done the walk through earlier in the morning as we knew one could not be conducted with such volatile tenants. (This was not the first time they had escalated in verbal assaults and threats but this was the first time that physical contact had been made or physical aggression had been committed.) We had filled out the walk through paper work, made copies for the tenants and signed the original copy. The Tenants were given their copies and we offered to walk through the problem areas, which is when the situation escalated. The tenants are now claiming a walk through was never done.

Question #1: Is it required that the tenants be present for the walk through?
Question #2: Is it required that the tenants sign the final walk through?

Damage to the house:
There are multiple attempted repairs to the premise that were not approved or reported by the tenant. Putty patches in each room, the putty was not wiped off and is not flush with the wall and is very rough in texture. Each room has about 50 or more of these patches. In each room there are mis-matched painting patches (White gloss on Yellow flat walls) about 50 of these in each room, if the correct color had been used it may have blended and not been an issue. There is also heavy scuffing and marking on the walls from floor to ceiling and even on the ceiling. In one room the door knob had been punched through the wall despite the installed door stop to prevent such things, again there was an attempt to patch this but it was unprofessional and very poor workmanship. The Fire door to the garage had been severely scratched by their dog and the trim and weather stripping damaged. They sanded the molding down leaving a large (4") sanded hole in the trim, they also sanded and puttied the fire door and painted it with a thin coat of Flat yellow interior wall paint, they missed several spots on the door making it obvious that the attempted repair was done. There are also several stains that appeared in the carpet the day after the walk through which we did not have documented on the final walk through forum as they were not apparent at the time. The other interior doors have what look like colored pencil or scratch marks, but we feel this is normal wear and tear as the damage is not excessive to the interior doors.

Question #3: Can the tenant be held responsible for repairs and re-texturing of their attempted repairs to the walls?
Question #4: Can the tenant be held responsible for the cost of repainting the walls they have patched and used white gloss paint on yellow walls to try and touch up scuff marks?
Question #5: Is the tenant responsible for the cost to repair and repaint the Fire door after their failed attempt at repairing/hiding the damage?
Question #6: Is the tenant responsible for the replacement cost of the molding and weather stripping?
Question #7: Can the tenant be held responsible for any additional carpet cleaning for the spots that appeared but were not documented on the final walk through? This would only be if there was any additional carpet cleaning above and beyond the cost of standard professional cleaning.
Question #8: Are we correct in feeling that the scratching and marks on the interior doors is normal wear and tear?

Cleaning:
Other than attempted spot cleaning and vacuuming of the carpet no cleaning was done. The baseboards all have a caking of dust, dead bugs and grease. Windows were not cleaned and were covered in a layer of black dust, perhaps caused by a kitchen fire. The bathrooms have urine around the floor on the toilet and under the seat. The shower stalls still have the outline of there the shampoo and bar of soap sat, caked in soap scum and discolored. There is also a bar of soap stuck and molded into the wall in the upper corner of the shower. Blood was also found on one door, on the carpet and on a different door handle in the house. The freezer was left dirt and one shelf looks like a tub of ice cream melted and oozed out and left to sit for a year. The deposit what was paid was only to cover light/normal cleaning.

Question #9: Does the cleaning that needs to be done (blood, urine etc) fall under Light/Normal cleaning or is this heavy cleaning?
Question #10: If the cleaning is above and beyond light/normal cleaning can the tenant be held responsible for additional costs to clean the house?

Appliance Repair:
When we ran the appliances we found that the dish washer was over flowing and flooding the floor. There was no evidence of previous damage to the flooring which was a relief. But this problem was never reported by the tenants and they did not deny that it had happened before and when told about it they just said "Okay". After looking at the dish washer we found the trap to be full of debris and whole pieces of food. The outer edges of the dish washer were filthy and layered in mold, grim and soap scum. The door seal was torn and CAKED in mold and food gunk, which had deteriorated the rubber seal and no longer effectively stopping water from leaking out the door. We were able to order a replacement seal from the manufacturer and this will hopefully resolve the issue.

Question #11: Is the Tenant or Landlord responsible for the replacement part cost? I believe it is the landlord, but I might be wrong.

Replacement Lighting:
We also found that 4 lights were out and this was documented on the final walk through. I know this is minor issue but I thought the tenant was supposed to replace the lights and batteries of fire alarms before leaving the house.

Question #12: Is the tenant or landlord responsible for replacing the light bulbs at the final walk through?
 


FarmerJ

Senior Member
Take pics of every thing thats dirty and the un aproved repair work they did . # 12 just buy the bulbs and charge them for them. #11 gasket you pay , cleaning the machine they pay for cleaning it. # 9 & 10 pointless , if they left something dirty document it with pics and charge them for cleaning it! #8 very light light marks normal gouges that say have to be lightly feathered with sander or so bad that replacement is needed is not normal wear and tear. 7 yes if tenant say spot cleaned but now the spots are showing up and its still with in your states timeline to address deposits by all means add re cleaning carpets in if theres a good result from hiring a pro ( just take pics to prove before and after) #3,4, 5, 6 if the tenant damaged them over and above normal wear and tear and something must be replaced its fair to make them pay a pro rated amount based on depreciation, if tenants wall patch job is bad yes they can pay you to correct it, if the paint job was say over a year old dont bother to ask for paint money paint only last a year or two . ALL other cleaning document and pic and they can be charged for cleaning like if they left windows very very filthy they can pay for cleaning them beside the drama of them being not so nice and less than pleasant people just get it all documented and in the deposit disposition and get that sent on time, if they did not leave you new address then send it to last known (the one they rented from you ) via certified mail. if they take you to court they will have to prove any claim you were not fair and of course your pics of every thing should do the trick for your end.
 

Gail in Georgia

Senior Member
Doesn't particularly matter what you keep (or return) in regards to the security deposit to these volatile tenants.

They're going to hit the roof if you keep anything out of the security deposit.

Document all the damage above normal wear and tear through pictures (one landlord on another forum takes upwards of 100 pictures of the condition of his rental units at move out) and charge for all cleaning and damages as appropriate..

Expect to be sued by your former tenants. Use the extensive pictures as evidence to prove your case.

Gail
 

Stephen1

Member
Washington has a very strict requirement for notifying the former tenant about what was withheld from the deposit (and of course returning the balance). It is 14 days. It is not 15 days or longer. There virtually is NO excuse the court will accept for not meeting this.
Story time: We are in Washington state. Once had a tenant we didn't want to deal with. We knew they would raise a fuss over amounts we were going to deduct so to avoid conflict we dragged our feet on sending the required letter to them. At about day 16 or 17 we actually sent it. Then we received notice of a small claims court hearing. While their supposed claim had a bunch of bogus amounts in it we learned from our attorney that we would have to return 100% of the deposit because we hadn't met the 14 day requirement. Ultimately we paid 100% of the deposit plus their cost for filing the court case; they dropped the case and we didn't have to show for court (but I sat there anyway just in case).
Moral: Meet the 14 day requirement no matter how obnoxious the tenant is.
 

tranquility

Senior Member
If you ever think there will be a legal disagreement, treat everything as though you will have to explain to others who have no idea of the situation. Imagine a jury (although it may not be one) deciding.
 

Searchertwin

Senior Member
The tenants are now claiming a walk through was never done.
They can claim all they want, you have a police call to state different.
Question #1: Is it required that the tenants be present for the walk through?
If you got proof that you set up a time and they did not show, no.
Question #2: Is it required that the tenants sign the final walk through?
It would be better if they did. But you have police report to back you up. I assume you explain what you were doing that day and what took place.

Question #9: Does the cleaning that needs to be done (blood, urine etc) fall under Light/Normal cleaning or is this heavy cleaning?
I would highlight this as heavy cleaning, but would charge a normal cleaning rate. Show judge you were being reasonable.

Question #10: If the cleaning is above and beyond light/normal cleaning can the tenant be held responsible for additional costs to clean the house?
Items have different prices of cleaning. For instance, window sills, say $5.00, stove - $30.00, Ref - $25 - See the difference? Depends on how dirty. Stove is more due to grease build-up. Tub is the same with scum build-up.

The door seal was torn and CAKED in mold and food gunk, which had deteriorated the rubber seal and no longer effectively stopping water from leaking out the door. We were able to order a replacement seal from the manufacturer and this will hopefully resolve the issue
.
Since tenant did not notify you of this and you can prove the mold and food gunk CAUSED the deterioration of rubber seal, yes, charge them.
Personally, I would charge for cleaning and I would pay for the rubber seal. It would have to be replaced sooner or later.

As stated, one LL took over 100 pictures, I have done over 200, any less with damages like that, you will be sorry. I never had a bad tenant, knock on wood, but if I knew what I was going to encounter, my pictures would be way over 200.
 

ravenjinn

Junior Member
UPDATE: Thank you for advice, now comes the lawsuit.

Thank you all for your comments, great advice here.

We were not able to get the Tenant to sign the completed walk through as they were out of control in the first few seconds of arrival and attempted to violently snatch all the copies including the original from my hands and made physical contact with me in the attempt. We immediately dropped their copies on the counter and left the house for fear of any further escalation of physical violence.

The cleaning and carpet cleaning came to $140 for cleaning and $180 for carpets. This is a 1400 sq ft home with 2 baths and 3 bedrooms, not a small space. $350 was held for cleaning and carpets, so $30 was left over to cover replacement light bulbs and additional spot cleaning etc.

The paint is more than 1-2 yrs old but is an expensive brand. I was surprised that paint only has a life of 1-2 yrs. I guess I have always taken really good care of my house and used really expensive paint. So painting is not something we can retain their deposit for.

The only issue left is the fire door. We spoke to the manufacture and since the door was sanded and the weather stripping was damaged and nearly gone the door is no longer fire rated and would not pass inspection if we tried to sell the house. Manufacturer and contractor both recommended replacement as the weather stripping is installed at the factory and built into the door’s frame.

Question #1A: Do we only retain monies for the cost of the door minus depreciation or do we also include the installation of the door?

The walk through was done on 10/6/12 and on 10/9/12 the tenant has filed a lawsuit against us. I personally feel this is their way of trying to intimidate us into returning the full $850, unfortunately it’s not working.

Question #2A: Can the tenant file a lawsuit before receiving the letter and return of deposit within 14 days?

Question #3A: Does anyone know where a form letter is online for what the itemized deduction of deposit should look like?

Thank you all again.
 

Searchertwin

Senior Member
So painting is not something we can retain their deposit for.
That's right you can't.
Question #1A: Do we only retain monies for the cost of the door minus depreciation or do we also include the installation of the door?
Who did the sanding? Did the sanding caused the damage or just was it wear and tear?
If tenant did the damage, sanding, you can replace, but this will involve depreciation.
You can charge the whole amount of installation.

In a case like this, I would not charge for the weather stripping. This would have worn over time anyway and that�s how it would be looked at. So I would replace the whole door and charge him for the installation and if he sanded the door without permission, I pro-rate that.
But to replace due to the stripping only and not the sanding, I would pay for everything.

I would put this in the letter: Sanding the door caused the stripping to deteriorate faster than normal. We are going to charge a depreciated cost for the replacement of door, installation of door minus cost of stripping. We acknowledge that over time, the stripping would had to be replaced due to wear and tear.
This little sentence will cover you.

Hopefully, you took a lot of pictures, to cover every angle.
Can they sue before the letter? Yes.
They already know they owe, so, I agree, it is a way to intimidate you.

You still need to send the letter, crr, before the 14 day. They are probably thinking that you won�t since they are suing.
In that letter, do not say anything about going to court because they are suing you. Keep the letter just what it is intended for. But I would tell them you have pictures of all the damages that you are itemizing. They might think twice.

Form Letter: You can find them at different places, but you can do one yourself.
At top of letter the title should read �Itemized list of damages/repairs to be deducted from Sec Dep of XXX
Than list each room separate and what you did in each room
Here is an example:
Kitchen:
Stove - Spray with oven cleaner, remove grills and clean, clean off oven cleaner in stove - scrub grease from top of stove- replace liners - remove knobs, soak and clean - remove filter and replaced - remove light bulb and replace - clean sides of stove
Material needed: - oven cleaner - XXX
gloves - xxx
Liners - xxx
light bulb - xxx
SOS pads - No Charge - Already had some
Labor - xx an hour - three hours total - XXX
Total for stove: labor and materials - XXXXX

Ref - same as above

Than next room:
First Bedroom

List every little thing you do. This shows the labor involve. If you just list �stove - clean�, instead of how I listed it above - than one doesn�t get the whole picture. And if it comes down to proving to Judge, he will see a different view than just �clean�. It will show time involved, and cleaning involved.
My pages are sometimes over 4 pages in length. But the point is that I cover myself where there�s no room for tenant to dispute. But pictures help. If I don�t have a picture to back me up, that�s my fault and I won�t charge.
 
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