First time in small claims court…questions

[Appreciate The Help]

What is the name of your state? Hawaii

My neighbor allowed her dog to get out (again) and this time it got into our coop and killed 9 laying hens, which is almost all of them. They were beloved pets of my son, primarily.
At first she was so sorry and wanting to make it right. I asked her for only part of the damages, and she said it was way too much and then stopped communicating.
I am looking at taking her to SC court.
Questions:
1. How do I get the Humane Society report? They are saying they need a subpoena from my lawyer but I don’t have one and don’t plan to get one.
2. I am fairly confident I will prevail. But she claims to not have any money (despite recently adopting a fairly large dog), works as a waitress. She cited her mortgage payment as one reason she couldn’t pay but property searches don’t show her owning any property, only briefly being on the title for the house where she lives. I believe she rents a room.

Basically, how much hope should I have that I will ever collect from a person who may keep as low a financial profile as possible? On the court search I can see there are (among other things) tax liens on her in the past for failure to pay income tax, so I suspect she now tries to avoid documented income.

I am a teacher and single mother, I really didn’t need this expense (on top of the heartache and physical labor this caused.)

Also, this truly was devastating, as strange as that may seem given they were chickens. Can I ask for anything because of that?

thank you

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state? Hawaii

My neighbor allowed her dog to get out (again) and this time it got into our coop and killed 9 laying hens, which is almost all of them. They were beloved pets of my son, primarily.
At first she was so sorry and wanting to make it right. I asked her for only part of the damages, and she said it was way too much and then stopped communicating.
I am looking at taking her to SC court.
Questions:
1. How do I get the Humane Society report? They are saying they need a subpoena from my lawyer but I don’t have one and don’t plan to get one.
2. I am fairly confident I will prevail. But she claims to not have any money (despite recently adopting a fairly large dog), works as a waitress. She cited her mortgage payment as one reason she couldn’t pay but property searches don’t show her owning any property, only briefly being on the title for the house where she lives. I believe she rents a room.

Basically, how much hope should I have that I will ever collect from a person who may keep as low a financial profile as possible? On the court search I can see there are (among other things) tax liens on her in the past for failure to pay income tax, so I suspect she now tries to avoid documented income.

I am a teacher and single mother, I really didn’t need this expense (on top of the heartache and physical labor this caused.)

Also, this truly was devastating, as strange as that may seem given they were chickens. Can I ask for anything because of that?

thank you

Here is a link to the law:

https://www.animallaw.info/statute/hi-dog-bite-chapter-142-animals-brands-and-fences

You can sue the owner of the dog to recover the value of your hens. Should you be awarded damages (and I don’t see why you wouldn’t be), collecting on the judgment will be up to you. Getting a judgment is often easier than collecting. That the dog owner is employed is a factor in your favor.

The fact that the hens that were killed were egg-layers makes them more valuable under the law than they would be simply as pets, but I can understand how your son must feel and am sorry for his loss.

 

[quincy]

Here is a link to Small Claims:

https://www.courts.state.hi.us/self-help/small_claims/small_claims

You mentioned a Humane Society report. Was it the Humane Society that responded to the dog’s attack? Do you have a police report?

 

[adjusterjack]

Can I ask for anything because of that?

Sorry, you don't get anything for the heartache or the pet value.

Before you do anything, you'll need to determine the value of the chickens as egg producers. The first part of that should be obvious. Find out how much it will cost you to replace the chickens with those of comparable age and egg producing ability. Then, if you kept the chickens for personal consumption, determine the cost to buy eggs for the period between the deaths and the time you replace the chickens. Keep in mind that you have a duty to mitigate which means that you have to replace the chickens as quickly as reasonably possible whether you get paid by the neighbor or not. In other words you don't get to sit back for the months that a lawsuit will take and then expect to get paid all that expense.

Once you have determined the dollar amount of your damages, I suggest that you fill out the small claims complaint form but don't file just yet. Attach it to a demand letter and send it to the neighbor giving a deadline date for her to pay the amount claimed. No need to threaten a lawsuit, the complaint form will do that for you.

If you aren't paid by the deadline file your lawsuit. Once the summons and complaint is served on the defendant you can serve a subpoena on whatever authority has a report of the incident. You don't necessarily need a lawyer to do that. Your court system website should have the forms and instructions.

Hopefully, once she gets the demand and understands that you aren't backing off, she'll quit the excuses and come up with the money.

 

[Appreciate The Help]

Here is a link to the law:

https://www.animallaw.info/statute/hi-dog-bite-chapter-142-animals-brands-and-fences

You can sue the owner of the dog to recover the value of your hens. Should you be awarded damages (and I don’t see why you wouldn’t be), collecting on the judgment will be up to you. Getting a judgment is often easier than collecting. That the dog owner is employed is a factor in your favor.

The fact that the hens that were killed were egg-layers makes them more valuable under the law than they would be simply as pets, but I can understand how your son must feel and am sorry for his loss.

Thank you for that link. It is very useful. And thank you for your kind words.

I have read that is so, that getting the judgment is one thing, collecting can be another. I ran a background check to try to see what I could learn, and while on mine I could see places of employment, property owned, etc nothing came up for her, leading me to believe she may be working under the table. I am guessing if I had enough info, though, I could find something to act on. Is there a way to force her to divulge her financial situation in court?

thank you again

 

[Appreciate The Help]

Sorry, you don't get anything for the heartache or the pet value.

Before you do anything, you'll need to determine the value of the chickens as egg producers. The first part of that should be obvious. Find out how much it will cost you to replace the chickens with those of comparable age and egg producing ability. Then, if you kept the chickens for personal consumption, determine the cost to buy eggs for the period between the deaths and the time you replace the chickens. Keep in mind that you have a duty to mitigate which means that you have to replace the chickens as quickly as reasonably possible whether you get paid by the neighbor or not. In other words you don't get to sit back for the months that a lawsuit will take and then expect to get paid all that expense.

Once you have determined the dollar amount of your damages, I suggest that you fill out the small claims complaint form but don't file just yet. Attach it to a demand letter and send it to the neighbor giving a deadline date for her to pay the amount claimed. No need to threaten a lawsuit, the complaint form will do that for you.

If you aren't paid by the deadline file your lawsuit. Once the summons and complaint is served on the defendant you can serve a subpoena on whatever authority has a report of the incident. You don't necessarily need a lawyer to do that. Your court system website should have the forms and instructions.

Hopefully, once she gets the demand and understands that you aren't backing off, she'll quit the excuses and come up with the money.

That sounds like a plan. It does not appear to be a requirement here, making a demand in writing first. I have done that via text, but now want to go after the full amount since this is such a hassle. Having a deadline would possibly force her to at least communicate again.
I asked her to propose terms, and I’d be very reasonable if I thought she would see it through. If she claims she will pay x a month and stops, can I then file a claim for the entirety owed? Like, say she suddenly takes me up on x a month on the original lesser amount I asked for, but stops paying. As long as it’s within the statute, even if we had an informal agreement for her to pay a lesser amount, if she stops can I then file a claim for the entire amount of the FULL impact minus whatever she DID pay?

Editing to add: How worried should I be that she’ll claim to be judgment-proof?

thanks again

 

[Appreciate The Help]

Here is a link to Small Claims:

https://www.courts.state.hi.us/self-help/small_claims/small_claims

You mentioned a Humane Society report. Was it the Humane Society that responded to the dog’s attack? Do you have a police report?

Yes the Humane Society responded. There is a report from them…somewhere.

 

[adjusterjack]

. Is there a way to force her to divulge her financial situation in court?

When you get a judgment you can have her summoned to court for a debtor's examination where she will have to explain her resources under oath. How successful that would be is anybody's guess.

It does not appear to be a requirement here, making a demand in writing first.

It's a strategy thing. Some people are afraid of lawsuits, some aren't - because they are deadbeats.

I asked her to propose terms, and I’d be very reasonable if I thought she would see it through. If she claims she will pay x a month and stops, can I then file a claim for the entirety owed? Like, say she suddenly takes me up on x a month on the original lesser amount I asked for, but stops paying. As long as it’s within the statute, even if we had an informal agreement for her to pay a lesser amount, if she stops can I then file a claim for the entire amount of the FULL impact minus whatever she DID pay?

Don't even go there. She's already ghosting you. Don't be naive enough to think that she will suddenly be willing to make payment arrangements with you. Play hard ball or you are likely to end up with no money and a lot of aggravation.

Editing to add: How worried should I be that she’ll claim to be judgment-proof?

Judgment proof isn't a "claim" any more than "I'll file bankruptcy if you sue me."

Judgment proof IS what somebody IS after you get a judgment that is impossible to collect.

 

[Appreciate The Help]

When you get a judgment you can have her summoned to court for a debtor's examination where she will have to explain her resources under oath. How successful that would be is anybody's guess.



It's a strategy thing. Some people are afraid of lawsuits, some aren't - because they are deadbeats.



Don't even go there. She's already ghosting you. Don't be naive enough to think that she will suddenly be willing to make payment arrangements with you. Play hard ball or you are likely to end up with no money and a lot of aggravation.



Judgment proof isn't a "claim" any more than "I'll file bankruptcy if you sue me."

Judgment proof IS what somebody IS after you get a judgment that is impossible to collect.

Ah, I see. I thought judgment proof was something you could claim to be at hearing, like, your honor, I’m broke, please exempt me from this debt.

And yeah, a near deadbeat is my guess based on all the stuff I found on the court search. Flying just under the radar, legit enough to buy surfboards and dog food, magically broke when it comes to taxes or other not-so-fun obligations. Pretty common here. Usually transplants, and usually identifiable by their “love and light” and “breathe aloha” bumper stickers.

 

[Appreciate The Help]

Anyone want to poke holes in my math? I’d appreciate an outsider’s perspective. Usually, a person just pays for the like chickens. But to me, she owes me every penny of what it is costing to react in a reasonable way. But maybe that’s not really reasonable? Here’s the basics:

The current enclosure is not dog proof. Chicken runs generally aren’t, not against a dog allowed to get out for long enough. In order to house the two surviving hens and a few more (son was saying he did indeed want to build up a little, and we actually had fertile eggs from his favorite hen, which we have since incubated and hatched) in this new reality (same neighbor with same level of judgment, same dog living there), I bought a walk in dog kennel and got rid of the old run. It was the cheapest option, and I gave up floor space to do it. I also had miscellaneous expenses from getting it set up to house chickens, such as a tarp for rain protection, external feeder and waterer. All of it added up to about $800. The lost laying hens seem to be worth about $400, and I can share my math on that if anyone’s interested. I also bought an incubator and heat plate for the chicks, about $140 for those. I don’t know if that’s reasonable to include, though. If I didn’t, I’m looking at asking $1200ish. If I did include the incubator and brooder it would be $1340ish. I’m leaning toward the $1200ish.

I originally asked her for $714. I asked her what terms she thought acceptable. She has stopped communicating.

Now that it’s taken this turn I want to ask for recompense for the whole impact. This feels like a lot, but there didn’t seem to be any other way to react to the situation as it was. Thoughts?

 

[adjusterjack]

You are incurring costs that are not compensable. You may think it's reasonable but that's not how negligence law works.

You are only entitled to the costs that you incurred because of her negligence.

1 - The cost to replace the dead chickens with live ones of comparable quality. Not what you think or say they are "worth." "Worth" means nothing in court. "Cost" is what counts. Go to the chicken supplier, buy the chickens, get a receipt, present a copy of the receipt to the judge. You don't want to annoy the judge by arguing "worth" when "cost" can be easily determined and documented.

2 - The cost of eggs from the time of the deaths to the time the replacement chickens begin to produce eggs. Keep your receipts from the grocery store and present them to the judge. Remember mitigation.

3 - If the chicken enclosure was damaged you are entitled to the cost to repair it. Get it repaired, keep the receipt for the judge. If it's not repairable, the cost of one of like kind and quality, not an upgrade. If you upgrade you pay the difference.

4 - Incubator, heat plate, tarp for rain protection, external feeder and waterer. Only if those items were damaged by her dog and had to be replaced. Otherwise, no.

You're only entitled to your actual damages and your court costs and probably post judgment interest on the judgment amount which will accrue until the judgment is satisfied.. You don't have to take my word for it (though you should). You can read the statute.

Hawaii Revised Statutes § 142-74 (2022) - Liability of dog owner; penalty. :: 2022 Hawaii Revised Statutes :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

If this happens a second time she could be subject to criminal prosecution and destruction of the dog.

Hawaii Revised Statutes § 142-12 (2022) - Penalties. :: 2022 Hawaii Revised Statutes :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

 

[Appreciate The Help]

You are incurring costs that are not compensable. You may think it's reasonable but that's not how negligence law works.

You are only entitled to the costs that you incurred because of her negligence.

1 - The cost to replace the dead chickens with live ones of comparable quality. Not what you think or say they are "worth." "Worth" means nothing in court. "Cost" is what counts. Go to the chicken supplier, buy the chickens, get a receipt, present a copy of the receipt to the judge. You don't want to annoy the judge by arguing "worth" when "cost" can be easily determined and documented.

2 - The cost of eggs from the time of the deaths to the time the replacement chickens begin to produce eggs. Keep your receipts from the grocery store and present them to the judge. Remember mitigation.

3 - If the chicken enclosure was damaged you are entitled to the cost to repair it. Get it repaired, keep the receipt for the judge. If it's not repairable, the cost of one of like kind and quality, not an upgrade. If you upgrade you pay the difference.

4 - Incubator, heat plate, tarp for rain protection, external feeder and waterer. Only if those items were damaged by her dog and had to be replaced. Otherwise, no.

You're only entitled to your actual damages and your court costs and probably post judgment interest on the judgment amount which will accrue until the judgment is satisfied.. You don't have to take my word for it (though you should). You can read the statute.

Hawaii Revised Statutes § 142-74 (2022) - Liability of dog owner; penalty. :: 2022 Hawaii Revised Statutes :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

If this happens a second time she could be subject to criminal prosecution and destruction of the dog.

Hawaii Revised Statutes § 142-12 (2022) - Penalties. :: 2022 Hawaii Revised Statutes :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

Thank you for your input. I’m actually fairly sure of my laying hen value, after doing some research, because it’s what it would cost to raise chicks to the point of laying. Also, laying hens here are $50, though it’s far more common to start with chicks for a variety of reasons. The other points are well taken. The bummer about the eggs is that right now I’m just not buying eggs because money is tight. I’m doing a deep scraping of the freezer and pantries instead at the moment. So if they need receipts to show this loss, well, sigh. Regarding the enclosure, she actually wasn’t disputing that I needed a new enclosure, initially at least. It was damaged, but moreover she seemed to get that her dog presented a constant threat. It is a real shame because I felt like my two choices were teeing myself up for the same heartache and cruel animal deaths OR securing the chickens to this new standard. The dog had killed all her chickens, gotten out again and killed a feral, and then gotten out again, found its way onto our property and into our run, and killed ours. And she was aware of the issue and did not prevent it. I just can’t wrap my head around not getting to put it on her to help defend against that. But I get what you are saying and appreciate the input.

 

[adjusterjack]

I’m actually fairly sure of my laying hen value, after doing some research, because it’s what it would cost to raise chicks to the point of laying. Also, laying hens here are $50, though it’s far more common to start with chicks for a variety of reasons.

Good point. You'd be entitled to the LESSER of the cost to raise the chicks or buy the hens. Determine the cost of buying and raising chicks with appropriate documentation. Compare it to the cost of laying hens, ask for the lesser amount and be prepared to show the comparison to the judge.

The bummer about the eggs is that right now I’m just not buying eggs

Go on your supermarket's website and print out the current price of eggs. Figure out what it would cost you and present that in court.

Regarding the enclosure, she actually wasn’t disputing that I needed a new enclosure, initially at least. It was damaged, but moreover she seemed to get that her dog presented a constant threat.

What she knows or thinks is not relevant. You can ask for the cost of your new enclosure but if she refutes that in court, the amount may be adjusted.

The dog had killed all her chickens, gotten out again and killed a feral, and then gotten out again, found its way onto our property and into our run, and killed ours.

She's not facing criminal prosecution?

I just can’t wrap my head around not getting to put it on her to help defend against that.

Bottom line: you can sue for any amount you want. Just understand that the judge may adjust the amount.

 

[Appreciate The Help]

Good point. You'd be entitled to the LESSER of the cost to raise the chicks or buy the hens. Determine the cost of buying and raising chicks with appropriate documentation. Compare it to the cost of laying hens, ask for the lesser amount and be prepared to show the comparison to the judge.



Go on your supermarket's website and print out the current price of eggs. Figure out what it would cost you and present that in court.



What she knows or thinks is not relevant. You can ask for the cost of your new enclosure but if she refutes that in court, the amount may be adjusted.



She's not facing criminal prosecution?



Bottom line: you can sue for any amount you want. Just understand that the judge may adjust the amount.

Thanks. No, about the criminal prosecution. Just the incident report and lots of “education” on “enrichment activities” and such so that the dog wouldn’t want to get out. These words, along with what I know of my neighbor’s judgment, are what made me feel like it was on me to make sure my enclosure was dog proof. Once you’ve had this happen, the prospect is unbearable and very real.

Get this. One of the reasons given not to cite her was that comes with fines and court appearance. The Humane Society officer saw how distraught this neighbor was was and that she was very motivated to make this right, and told me she opted not to cite her so her money could go to helping us instead.

Thank you again for your help.

 

[adjusterjack]

You're welcome. Please report back with your progress.