Florida modification

[Noelle_71]

What is the name of your state? Fl (filing from Texas though)
Hey all.
Okay, I'm trying to do this modification myself and wow is it involved and looooong.
I really want to minimize the amount of time and money spent on this. For those of you whom have done a modification first hand, is it really as difficult as it appears or are the 160 pages of instructions and forms worth the time? Do I have to appear in the court or can everything be done via mail? Dad is in the military and heading off to Saudi, is that going to make this process even harder and longer?
And if I file for a modification now and Dad doesn't respond for lets say, six months or so -after being properly served..is the modification retroactive to the date it was filed with the court?
And finally, if Dad has been paying me directly, can he just give the court the records and they will give him credit or do I have to sign off on an affidavit of direct payment to give him credit?
I really want to make this easy for both of us, but so far Dad doesn't want to do that. I found out yesterday why..he's had another child that has suddenly appeared and I'm sure that is part of the reason he is balking at bringing the support to the level it needs to be at. (He's paying, right now 1/4 of what the guidelines give as the proper amount. It'd be so much easier if he'd just read the guidlelines for support, agree that we both follow them and we'd just go forward from there..*shrug* I don't want to casue him trouble or try to "rob" him. I just want the support for the kids to be at the proper level. Right now its a very small amount based on his income from 1995 and he's making five times more now than he was then.
Is it worth going through all this or should I just go into debt and hire a Florida attorney to do it for me?

 

[LdiJ]

You do realize that if you go through the CSE for the modification they will take care of all of the paperwork?

 

[Noelle_71]

You do realize that if you go through the CSE for the modification they will take care of all of the paperwork?

I thought of that LdiJ, but I wasnt sure..I thought that since we had a prior order - that since it isn't really whats going on now, that I had to redo everything.
Do you have something I can reference?

 

[Noelle_71]

One more thing...does anyone know ..when in the military, how gross income is calculated? Does it include the money that the member is given for housing and food? He has an extra 1100 a month that is given in that form.

 

[Gracie3787]

What is the name of your state? Fl (filing from Texas though)
Hey all.
Okay, I'm trying to do this modification myself and wow is it involved and looooong.
I really want to minimize the amount of time and money spent on this. For those of you whom have done a modification first hand, is it really as difficult as it appears or are the 160 pages of instructions and forms worth the time? Do I have to appear in the court or can everything be done via mail? Dad is in the military and heading off to Saudi, is that going to make this process even harder and longer?
And if I file for a modification now and Dad doesn't respond for lets say, six months or so -after being properly served..is the modification retroactive to the date it was filed with the court?
And finally, if Dad has been paying me directly, can he just give the court the records and they will give him credit or do I have to sign off on an affidavit of direct payment to give him credit?
I really want to make this easy for both of us, but so far Dad doesn't want to do that. I found out yesterday why..he's had another child that has suddenly appeared and I'm sure that is part of the reason he is balking at bringing the support to the level it needs to be at. (He's paying, right now 1/4 of what the guidelines give as the proper amount. It'd be so much easier if he'd just read the guidlelines for support, agree that we both follow them and we'd just go forward from there..*shrug* I don't want to casue him trouble or try to "rob" him. I just want the support for the kids to be at the proper level. Right now its a very small amount based on his income from 1995 and he's making five times more now than he was then.
Is it worth going through all this or should I just go into debt and hire a Florida attorney to do it for me?

As LdiJ said, you can go to CSE and have then file the papers for you, however, there are some things you should be aware of before you make your decision:

1. The CSE agency is s-l-o-w to act. If you have them do the papers it will most likely be 6 months to a year (or possibly longer) before the case goes to court. If you file pro-se you'll probably be able to get a court date within 6 months (or less depending on the county it's in). Either way, the modification can be made retro back to date of actual filing with the court (not the date you give it to CSE).

2. Once CSE is involved in the case, all payments will have to go thru the Fl. disbursement unit. This means that it can take up to 3 weeks from the time ex makes payment for you to recieve the payment. If this is the way you want to go, make sure to budget with that in mind- at least for the first couple of payments. CSE will also automatically do an Income Deduction order for garnishment, which can also delay things.

If ex is current in payments and you want the modification to be done quickly, you might be better off filing pro-se. All you'll need is a Petition for Modification, a Financial Affidavit, a CS Guidelines Worksheet, a Certificate of Compliance With Mandatory Disclosure, a Summons, and copies of the court order for CS. Fill them out (fairly simple to do) then make copies (ones for yourself also) send the originals to the court for filing and copies to the sheriff in ex's county (service fee is usually around $25.00). Be sure to send sheriff a SASE for the return of service. When he is erved filed the return of service with the court. If ex doesn't respond within 20 days of service you can file a motion for default to have a court date set. Go to www.flcourts.org for info and forms.

Since ex is in military you need to have him served before he leaves and hopefully it can all be done before he leaves. However, if he leaves before service it can delay any modification until he returns. Do you know if there is a CS order for the other child? If there is it will affect the amount he'll be ordered to pay, because he'll be able to deduct the amount of CS he pays from his income.

 

[Gracie3787]

One more thing...does anyone know ..when in the military, how gross income is calculated? Does it include the money that the member is given for housing and food? He has an extra 1100 a month that is given in that form.

No, his housing allotment isn't considered as income. I forgot to add in my other post that the toll free number for Fl CSE is 1-800-622-5437.

 

[Noelle_71]

No, his housing allotment isn't considered as income. I forgot to add in my other post that the toll free number for Fl CSE is 1-800-622-5437.

WOW! Thats a lot of information, how'd you get so smart?
I will try to get it done before he goes in September. As far as the other kid goes, the mother and he are living together, so that's not going to factor in, I don't think. What I do wonder, though, is that since you can't figure in the housing and such, will the judge consider his disposable income higher. It only makes sense :/ but who knows how they figure this stuff.
I'll call that number tomorrow because I want to get rolling with this.
Take this next question with a grain of salt...he has been paying me an amount, not wha the order says..it's less and it isn't going through the courts. We're both out of Florida and are kids are two with me, the oldest moving on to college now and not his responsibility anymore. If I wanted to be a total b*tch (which I'm not going to but this is a hypothetical) could I refuse to give him credit for the direct payments? Before anyone flies off the handle and calls me names, the only reason I ask this is that, he's difficult, he just won't communicate and I'd rather talk it out and come to a quick easy agreement between the two of us and see the use of that information as a tool to get him to mediate rather than draw this out, take it through the system, cost the state and both of us time and money. In the end, if he won't agree, thats the route I'll go and I will end up giving him credit, I'd just rather put a bit of pressure to it and settle it asap. Does that make me bad? I don't think so.....but whats the take on that? Do I have a bargaining chip or is it an empty tool?

 

[Gracie3787]

WOW! Thats a lot of information, how'd you get so smart?
I will try to get it done before he goes in September. As far as the other kid goes, the mother and he are living together, so that's not going to factor in, I don't think. What I do wonder, though, is that since you can't figure in the housing and such, will the judge consider his disposable income higher. It only makes sense :/ but who knows how they figure this stuff.
I'll call that number tomorrow because I want to get rolling with this.
Take this next question with a grain of salt...he has been paying me an amount, not wha the order says..it's less and it isn't going through the courts. We're both out of Florida and are kids are two with me, the oldest moving on to college now and not his responsibility anymore. If I wanted to be a total b*tch (which I'm not going to but this is a hypothetical) could I refuse to give him credit for the direct payments? Before anyone flies off the handle and calls me names, the only reason I ask this is that, he's difficult, he just won't communicate and I'd rather talk it out and come to a quick easy agreement between the two of us and see the use of that information as a tool to get him to mediate rather than draw this out, take it through the system, cost the state and both of us time and money. In the end, if he won't agree, thats the route I'll go and I will end up giving him credit, I'd just rather put a bit of pressure to it and settle it asap. Does that make me bad? I don't think so.....but whats the take on that? Do I have a bargaining chip or is it an empty tool?

OK, here is my personal opinion on the payments issue: even though legally he'd have to prove the payments were made, I truly believe that a person should be honest about what was paid. If he paid less than what the court ordered, yes, you should bring up only that amount and use it as a bargaining tool. You can remind him that any arrears owed will accrue interest once the court establishes that arrears are owed,and that CSE is like a bulldog about collecting arrears/interest, that might make him more willing to discuss the issues.

I don't consider myself to be "smart", I just figure that I'm self-educated out of neccesity and experience.

 

[Inquiry123]

No, his housing allotment isn't considered as income.

This is incorrect. EVERYTHING listed on the LES is considered income...including BAH/BAS.

Why? Because it's income. And we're talking actual cash if they live off-base.

How about the CEO who receives a salary of only $1 a year (but millions in stock and options)...they don't have their support based on the $1.

My advice: Get an attorney to handle this. It might cost you less than $1K and it'll be more likely to be done correctly and expediently.

 

[Noelle_71]

This is incorrect. EVERYTHING listed on the LES is considered income...including BAH/BAS.

Why? Because it's income. And we're talking actual cash if they live off-base.

How about the CEO who receives a salary of only $1 a year (but millions in stock and options)...they don't have their support based on the $1.

My advice: Get an attorney to handle this. It might cost you less than $1K and it'll be more likely to be done correctly and expediently.

Well, we'll see but I really can't afford the attorney.

 

[Inquiry123]

Well, we'll see but I really can't afford the attorney.

Read the last line of your first post...the part about going into debt. That's what I would suggest. If you're accurately describing your ex's financial situation, you will recover the expenses involved with having an att'y handle this over only a few months. Or you can try and handle it yourself and burn a few months (and yourself) in the process.

Please do not be offended but missing a simple item such as the BAH would have cost you much more in the long run. Find an attorney that has experience with military income issues. Good luck.

 

[Gracie3787]

Well, we'll see but I really can't afford the attorney.

You don't need an attorney. You and ex live in different states. That is what the state CSE agency is for, to establish, enforce and modify interstate orders. Yes, as inquiry said, you can get an attorney and ASK that the NCP pay the fees, but there is no guarantee that a Judge will order that. I know of one case where the CP was ordered to pay the fees because the CP could have, should have used the state CSE agency. (Judge's word's not mine). If you don't want to file pro-se you really should use the CSE agency.

I apoligize for giving somewhat incorrect info on the housing allotment. I based that on a friend's case, he was military his rent was more than his allotment so the court refused to consider the allotment as income. According to the Fl statute on what is considered as income 61.30(2)(a)13 says- Reimbursed expenses or in kind payments to the extent that they reduce living expenses.
Apparently it can go either way and is probably up to the Judge to decide, however, it should be brought up since the statute mentions it. Good luck.

 

[ILOVEMYGSM3]

Inquiry

THE MILPERS MANUAL STATES THAT ONLY BASE PAY CAN BE COMPUTED IN A CIVIL PROCEEDING(NOT TAKING PLACE IN A MILITARY COURTROOM)...

the military are the only ones who are allowed to base TEMPORARY SUPPORT off of bah/bas...once he is divorced, he will no longer recieve the bah, and if he is made to move into the barracks, then not only will he not recieve even the SINGLE bah, he won't get bas either...my roomates ex-wife and current soon-to-be-ex wife thought that as well, and we've found the order that states only the military can use bah as income, not a civil court...

give me a few, and i'll quote that as soon as i find the order, its in my desk somewhere...

brb.....

 

[ILOVEMYGSM3]

Milpers Manual Pragraph...navy End Only

"Because of the inherent and arbitrary and TEMPORARY nature of the support scale set forth below, it is NOT INTENDED to be used as a basis for ANY judicial proceeding. To do so would lend EXCESSIVE CREDENCE to an administrative tool which has been designed for use ONLY INTERNALLY WITHIN THE NAVY...(there is a set support schedule listed under this)...
"Gross Pay will include basic pay and basic allowance for housing, if entitled, but does not include hazardous duty pay, sea or foreign pay, incentive pay, or BASIC ALLOWANCE FOR SUBSISTENCE"...

i've quoted this directly from the milpers manual....if you want more of this, do a google search that reads this....

MILPERS MANUAL 1754-30

it will have 8 pages of instructions, as well as a support table that dictates the amount ranging from just a spouse, to a spouse and 2 or more children, all the way to 3 minor children or more.....and if you're wanting spousal support, i will warn you now, that is does give the servicemember SEVERAL ways to get around it...and it includes instructions on how to send a waiver to DFAS to ask for denial of spousal support.....

yeah, i'm all about keeping the women who just want money in a military divorce, informed on their servicemembers rights as well.....

 

[Inquiry123]

"Because of the inherent and arbitrary and TEMPORARY nature of the support scale set forth below, it is NOT INTENDED to be used as a basis for ANY judicial proceeding. To do so would lend EXCESSIVE CREDENCE to an administrative tool which has been designed for use ONLY INTERNALLY WITHIN THE NAVY

ILOVE:

Please do not be offended...the suppositions that you made in your first post are incorrect. 1) A civil court CAN and WILL use BAH/BAS (or a myriad of other items) when computing support. 2) Once he is divorced, if there is a support order, he CAN CONTINUE to receive BAH even if he is required to move into barracks.

Support of children after a divorce is an ORDER for military personnel. Read what you've posted above. The information you've quoted is intended only for a temporary support calculation for internal military use. It has no relevance (and is NOT INTENDED) to be used as a basis for any judicial proceeding.

Anyone with military experience want to chime in?