Forced to use vacation time

[thoth200]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? North Carolina

Can a company force you to use your vacation hours of you don't work 8 hours in a day?

Here is whats going on. The place where i work made a new rule if you don't work a full 8 hours in a day will make you use your vacation time to make it equal 8. This was doing to discourage people from wanting to leave early. This includes if you have to go to the doctor or dentist or even if you get sick while at work and need to leave. My problem with this is i would like to keep my vacation time so i can use it like its meant for to take a vacation but the way its going i will not be able to use a full week to do anything. I mean its so silly that i was 20mins short for 40 hours and i had to use 20mins of vacation time to make it up. Is there anything we can do to stop this?

yes we have already talked with the HR department and tired ourselves. Now i am wondering if its even legal?

 

[Zigner]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? North Carolina

Can a company force you to use your vacation hours of you don't work 8 hours in a day?

Here is whats going on. The place where i work made a new rule if you don't work a full 8 hours in a day will make you use your vacation time to make it equal 8. This was doing to discourage people from wanting to leave early. This includes if you have to go to the doctor or dentist or even if you get sick while at work and need to leave. My problem with this is i would like to keep my vacation time so i can use it like its meant for to take a vacation but the way its going i will not be able to use a full week to do anything. I mean its so silly that i was 20mins short for 40 hours and i had to use 20mins of vacation time to make it up. Is there anything we can do to stop this?

yes we have already talked with the HR department and tired ourselves. Now i am wondering if its even legal?

Yes, it is legal.

 

[cyjeff]

Completely and 100% legal.

 

[davew128]

I mean its so silly that i was 20mins short for 40 hours and i had to use 20mins of vacation time to make it up. Is there anything we can do to stop this?

Don't leave 20 minutes early or stay 20 minutes late another day.

 

[applecruncher]

yes we have already talked with the HR department and tired ourselves.

That's what is silly.

 

[cyjeff]

Yeah... let's imagine THAT conversation...

Insert Scooby Doo wavy screen here....

HR> How can I help you?
Worker> I am sick and tired of the way I am treated.
HR> How is that?
Worker> Whenever I leave early, they make me make up the rest of the day using PTO.
HR> And the bad part is?
Worker> I want to use that time on my VACATION.
HR> So, why don't you just stay at work?
Worker> Because I want to leave early sometimes.... I just get so BORED here.
HR> Cool. Here is your last check. Do me a favor... hand me one of the million applications on that shelf behind you. It is someone's lucky day.

 

[Choosymother]

Hi thoth;

If you haven't figured it out, in the Southern states, the employers can do virtually whatever they want to you. They are called euphemistically, "The Right to Work States". and work, and work, and work.

I get the same thing where I work. I can put in all the overtime I want (it's not really overtime, I don't get paid extra, I'm just expected to do it) and when the occasional personal event happens and I want to take a couple of hours off early, it's like the Inquisition.

So the simple rule is: When you work extra for them, it's all good, if you want a break from them (even if all your work is done), it's sorry charlie. It doesn't matter how many hours you've "accumulated", no one keeps track on the high side.

Another Boss's Tool is to Press you with Deadlines. I had this happen to me last week. After some weeks of waiting, I was finally given the go ahead to start production at one of our new facilities. When I got there, it wasn't set up. So, the workers there had to stop what they were doing and bust their butts give me the infrastructure I needed to begin my job. They said to me that no one told them I was coming, and if I had just waited a week, it would have all been set up. I laughed. Of course, but this is the plan, I was forced to work late, the workers are forced to rush, working through lunch, cursing, and the bosses got 14 hours worth of work in 10 hours. But meanwhile the work they did for me was really jerry-rigged, and whether anybody will go back to do a permanent install is unknown.

C'est la guerre, such is war, if you don't like it you can leave. Say it out loud and they'll show you to the door, high unemployment just keeps production costs stable. Be happy that you have a job, but and expect your job description to say anything about your dignity and individuality.

It's not really that bad, haha.

Good Luck!

 

[Proserpina]

Hi thoth;

If you haven't figured it out, in the Southern states, the employers can do virtually whatever they want to you. They are called euphemistically, "The Right to Work States". and work, and work, and work.

I get the same thing where I work. I can put in all the overtime I want (it's not really overtime, I don't get paid extra, I'm just expected to do it) and when the occasional personal event happens and I want to take a couple of hours off early, it's like the Inquisition.

So the simple rule is: When you work extra for them, it's all good, if you want a break from them (even if all your work is done), it's sorry charlie. It doesn't matter how many hours you've "accumulated", no one keeps track on the high side.

Another Boss's Tool is to Press you with Deadlines. I had this happen to me last week. After some weeks of waiting, I was finally given the go ahead to start production at one of our new facilities. When I got there, it wasn't set up. So, the workers there had to stop what they were doing and bust their butts give me the infrastructure I needed to begin my job. They said to me that no one told them I was coming, and if I had just waited a week, it would have all been set up. I laughed. Of course, but this is the plan, I was forced to work late, the workers are forced to rush, working through lunch, cursing, and the bosses got 14 hours worth of work in 10 hours. But meanwhile the work they did for me was really jerry-rigged, and whether anybody will go back to do a permanent install is unknown.

C'est la guerre, such is war, if you don't like it you can leave. Say it out loud and they'll show you to the door, high unemployment just keeps production costs stable. Be happy that you have a job, but and expect your job description to say anything about your dignity and individuality.

It's not really that bad, haha.

Good Luck!

Do you understand what "right to work" and "at will" actually mean?

 

[cbg]

For the record, First, this practice is both legal and common in all 50 states, north, south, east and west.

Second, right to work means that you cannot be forced to join a union to get work. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the poster's situation. While not all states are right to work, right to work states are in both the north and the south. Granted, there are more in the south than the north, but they are not limited to southern states by any stretch.

Third, employment at will states, which is what I believe you mean, and which also has nothing to do with the poster's situation, are very much the majority. In fact, only one state (Montana) is not at least nominally at will, and even Montana recognizes the at-will doctrine in some situations.

It should be noted that Montana is also not a right to work state; therefore, it can truthfully be said that all right to work states are also employment at will states.

Now, to the actual question; vacation time is intended to be used to make you whole when you do not work an entire work week. By using it to fill in time that was not worked during a week, the employer is using it exactly as it was designed to be used. If you wanted to use all if it to take time off work and be paid for it, that's fine, but it does not change the fact that the employer is doing exactly what the concept of vacation time was designed to do. So yes, it is legal. It's what's supposed to happen. If you don't want to use 20 minutes of vacation time to make up 40 when you only work 39 hours and 40 minutes, then don't leave 20 minutes early.

 

[pattytx]

Hi thoth;

If you haven't figured it out, in the Southern states, the employers can do virtually whatever they want to you. They are called euphemistically, "The Right to Work States". and work, and work, and work.

I get the same thing where I work. I can put in all the overtime I want (it's not really overtime, I don't get paid extra, I'm just expected to do it) and when the occasional personal event happens and I want to take a couple of hours off early, it's like the Inquisition.

So the simple rule is: When you work extra for them, it's all good, if you want a break from them (even if all your work is done), it's sorry charlie. It doesn't matter how many hours you've "accumulated", no one keeps track on the high side.

Another Boss's Tool is to Press you with Deadlines. I had this happen to me last week. After some weeks of waiting, I was finally given the go ahead to start production at one of our new facilities. When I got there, it wasn't set up. So, the workers there had to stop what they were doing and bust their butts give me the infrastructure I needed to begin my job. They said to me that no one told them I was coming, and if I had just waited a week, it would have all been set up. I laughed. Of course, but this is the plan, I was forced to work late, the workers are forced to rush, working through lunch, cursing, and the bosses got 14 hours worth of work in 10 hours. But meanwhile the work they did for me was really jerry-rigged, and whether anybody will go back to do a permanent install is unknown.

C'est la guerre, such is war, if you don't like it you can leave. Say it out loud and they'll show you to the door, high unemployment just keeps production costs stable. Be happy that you have a job, but and expect your job description to say anything about your dignity and individuality.

It's not really that bad, haha.

Good Luck!

For the record, this poster just wants to rant and rave about how unfair her employer is. Ignore her.

 

[thoth200]

no need to be snappy

Ok so i get its legal and thanks to those people that just answered my question with out being to snappy. Now to those who where snappy about my question. As far as the 20mins goes. i am not leaving 20 mins early in one day like you seem to think. It the total for the week because i am not a robot and don't always clock in at exactly the same time everyday. I don't just leave work early because i am bored or don't want to work that day. i would not have made it with the company for 13 years if i was doing that. I only ever ask for a day off for Doctor appointments and dental stuff you know the normal things and i would even just do those on my day off if i could because i work Monday though Friday just like all doctor offices. i have to take a day off to go.

now the only reason this is bugging me and other workers now is that they are complaining about being over budget in pay roll and will be cutting our hours. So now that i know that its legal for them to do that i see that the new people in HR are just dumb. I guess i should go ask them if they are making us work a half day on Fridays now does that mean that they will have to use our vacation time to make it 40 hours.

 

[cbg]

And if the answer is yes, they are, it will be legal.

 

[Choosymother]

Right To Work is an Orwellian term, it prohibits workers from bargaining collectively with management because of a "hypothetical worker" who might be denied employment by choosing not to be part of the union. It's strange, like opposition to ObamaCare being about our freedom not to have health insurance.

About a year ago I was hanging around outside of a warehouse and I noticed that the day shift was leaving at 3M. I asked what was going on and the workers told me that things were slow, so they are let go early. That's cool, I thought, a paid afternoon off, but no, actually they weren't being paid, they get let go early, but the hours were deducted from their pay. A couple of weeks after that, at the same place, I saw the opposite. The women were on break, pacing around outside, chattering into cell phones. They were kind of freaking out, and one woman was crying. I asked again what was going on and they said that they were just informed that they were required to work mandatory overtime that evening and they were scrambling to have their kids picked up from Day Care, etc. I never saw that outside of the South, not even in non-union shops elsewhere.

I would like to think that when you're hired, that you have an implied agreement that for a certain amount of hours, you will be compensated at a certain wage. That said, you can budget your family time and money. You know, Pursuit of Happiness and all that.

Work for Hire is another situation, and again, you're at the short end of the stick. If you are fired unjustly or discriminated against in any way, and you want to do something about it, then burden of proof falls completely on you. This is why virtually all employees "let go" nowadays, get no explanation as to why. Also, your intellectual property and creativity belong to the employer. Without going into detail, many years ago, I was hired on a short term basis, rather like a freelancer, but in reality, a Work for Hire. I knew that the minute I picked up a pencil owned by the company, that what ever came out of it belonged to them. But I worked very hard and developed a new product line, the marketing plan, and related graphics. Eventually, I was let go, as I knew I would be, and the company ran with my ideas and is still selling the product today with the same graphics. I can't say that I ever expected anything else, but I wish I had some rights, the patents, or the copyright. I could have easily had, if I had only worked as a freelancer or with a work contract.

So, I'm sorry, if I sound like I'm complaining, I'm really not unsatisfied with my current work positions. It's just that since I've moved to the South, I've noted a marked difference in the relationships between the employer and employee, compared to the North, where I originally come from. They never treated workers in the exploitive and oppressive ways that I see down here. The weird thing is that the workers here take it with few complaints. I was just expressing MY OPINIONS about the situation, and I thought they were germane to original post.

Thank you.

 

[ecmst12]

NONE of which has anything to do with the poster's question. Quit hijacking.

 

[hambirg]

That's a very common practice and I'm sure perfectly legal. I don't understand what you are upset about? Are they not giving you the choice of not getting paid for that time or using vacation time? I'm assuming if you want to have that time as paid during a planned vacation, you could just not get paid for the time you don't work. And yes, I've worked many jobs where they can cut your hours and you don't get paid for the ones you don't work. That's just the normal work world. . so I'm not getting what you are upset at.