Forgeries on Recall Petition

[Texasgal]

Texas

There was a recall petition to remove some of the city council. Some of the signatures were found to be forged. For example, in at least one instance, an elderly couple had their signatures forged to indicate they were in favor of a petition they didn't even know about. They filed a complaint with the PD. One of the people helping circulate the petition is now willing to swear that the petition organizer told volunteers to gather signatures illegally. For instance if a person agreed to sign the petiton but the spouse was not home, to sign up the spouse anyway. If the people weren't home and you thought they might sign, sign them up because we need all the signatures we can get.

Beyond the ethical violation, has a law been broken? Is there any recourse? Any suggestions?

 

[Ohiogal]

Texasgal,
You either find a crime under every rock dealing with your government or you are just looking for ways to wage a legal war against the town. Every post I have seen from you has been detailing legal problems with your town and the ONLY tie in to everything is YOU! When lawyers see someone who has this many different legal situations, we tend to run because rather than seeing you as a cash cow or a guaranteed income, we see problems. No one person can have this many problems in a small town. Corporations may have this many legal questions but not everyday people.

 

[rallenw]

Forged signatures on petition.

It is unfortunate that OHIOGAL has answered in this manner. The forged signatures are a fact. I and several others submitted our open records request and individually paid our $34.50 for a copy of the submitted petitions. I recognized the name of two ill, elderly neighbors on the petion. When asked if they signed they emphatically said no. A police statement and complaint was filed with the police department. The individuals responsible for submitting the re-call petition were elected to city council and now have the controlling votes. These same individuals instructed the city attorney to tell the police chief to discontinue his investigation of the forgeries. In an email message from the city attorney, he states that he can not see where a crime was committed since the petition failed for lack of legal signatures. Forgery and ID theft are crimes, right? If in the perpetration of a crime you cause distress and fear to an elderly person, is that not a crime as well? Is that not considered a form of Elder Abuse?..If I were to sign the name of a person on their check and try to cash it, is it considered forgery only if I succeed in obtaining my goal, receiving money? If I do not obtain the money is it then just "OK, don't do that again"?

 

[Ohiogal]

It is not unfortunate. I responded based on the information that Texasgal has given in her post. And has posted numerous times in numerous forums regarding NUMEROUS legal questions about numerous legal problems. That is a fact. Most people, like I said, don't have such numerous legal problems. That is a fact. And a lawyer will run from someone who has as many legal quandaries as she purports to have. An ethical attorney will believe that the client is looking for trouble. And would want to file frivolous lawsuits. That is ANOTHER fact. So you know what -- there is NOTHING wrong with the way I responded.

 

[Ohiogal]

It is unfortunate that OHIOGAL has answered in this manner. The forged signatures are a fact. I and several others submitted our open records request and individually paid our $34.50 for a copy of the submitted petitions. I recognized the name of two ill, elderly neighbors on the petion. When asked if they signed they emphatically said no.

Prove it is a forgery. A forgery is not just that someone did not sign their own signature but also that they did not provide anyone with consent (whether implied or not) to sign it for them.


A police statement and complaint was filed with the police department.

Who filed the complaint? The ill elderly people? They are the only ones with the right to file a criminal complaint as they are the ones who were harmed.

The individuals responsible for submitting the re-call petition were elected to city council and now have the controlling votes. These same individuals instructed the city attorney to tell the police chief to discontinue his investigation of the forgeries. In an email message from the city attorney, he states that he can not see where a crime was committed since the petition failed for lack of legal signatures.

What was the crime? Seriously? Forgery? Well the problem with that is, who is alleging the forgery?


Forgery and ID theft are crimes, right?


Who is alleging the forgery and ID theft? And how were their identities stolen?

If in the perpetration of a crime you cause distress and fear to an elderly person, is that not a crime as well?


Did the people eliciting the signatures cause the distress and fear or was it you that caused them distress by questioning them about the signatures. And can you PROVE that they did not sign.

Is that not considered a form of Elder Abuse?..If I were to sign the name of a person on their check and try to cash it, is it considered forgery only if I succeed in obtaining my goal, receiving money?

That is not the only necessary factor determining forgery. It is more complicated than signging the name of a person on their check. That alone does not make it forgery.
If I do not obtain the money is it then just "OK, don't do that again"?

Depending on the factors, it could be a simple "Don't do it again." Or it could be jailtime. But you are missing the point. you got an answer you didn't like. But that doesn't mean it is wrong. There is more that goes into identity theft and forgery than what you describe.

 

[Texasgal]

I can see why you would think I was strumming up lawyer business but, in fact, none of this benefits me personally, in any way. I found this site while researching for something else but have told several people about it. I heard nasty rumblings about the "state of the city" and attended ONE city council meeting where I heard all this stuff . It boggles the mind. Open meetings violations, forgerys - tension so thick you could cut it with a knife and over flow attendance in the council chamber. I assure you, it is all too weird not to be true! I don't want political office, I don't want money from anyone, I don't even want to file a lawsuit. I just find myself as a normal citizen shaking my head and totally at a loss as to what is legal, what is semi legal and what is politics. You's studied this stuff. I am a rank amatuer feeling my way. Sorry to bother you.

 

[Ohiogal]

I can see why you would think I was strumming up lawyer business but, in fact, none of this benefits me personally, in any way. I found this site while researching for something else but have told several people about it. I heard nasty rumblings about the "state of the city" and attended ONE city council meeting where I heard all this stuff . It boggles the mind. Open meetings violations, forgerys - tension so thick you could cut it with a knife and over flow attendance in the council chamber. I assure you, it is all too weird not to be true! I don't want political office, I don't want money from anyone, I don't even want to file a lawsuit. I just find myself as a normal citizen shaking my head and totally at a loss as to what is legal, what is semi legal and what is politics. You's studied this stuff. I am a rank amatuer feeling my way. Sorry to bother you.

People on this site who post about legal problems tend to want to know what they could get if they sue. That is what 90% of the posters are after. Hence why I responded the way I did. Those that dont' want to sue and post in a variety of different forums tend to be students (paralegal, or some type of law) that want us to do their homework for them. Which we will not do. And if we think that is what it is about we will point it out. Your questions all had to do with city councils and such -- leading me to believe after I read several different posts on the same subject matter -- that you were taking some sort of government procedure law class. Then when you threw in something about employment and pregnancy -- that shifted to you also taking a class on employment law as well. People, including me, will help. But after a while we will also question until we get to know who the heck it is that is posting. No one on here wants to be used or contribute to frivolous lawsuits.