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Forgery - Please help

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fireman06

Junior Member
NJ - I sent my step-daughter to a car dealership to purchase a used car. The financial manager of this facility is my step daughter's aunt's boyfriend. He assured me that he would show her vehicles that were used and affordable. Somewhere during the visit, which she went with his girlfriend (or her aunt), he called me and asked who's name to put the car in, not mentioning that she had picked out a car yet. he basicvally wanted to know once she picked out a car, who name to put the car in. Because of insurance reasons, I told him to put the car in my name.

At the end of their transaction, I was under the impression that a used car was purchased and financed under my name. he caled me not again mentionong the car that was bought and he asked me about coming in and signing the papers. I told him at thta point to just go ahewad and sign my name to which eigther he or my step daughter did just that.

My step-daughter showed up at the house with a brand new 2005 Honda Accord, leased in my name and she or he signed my name on all of the documents.

Since that time, I am about to go through a divorce and want that car returned. I want to know if the dealership is responsible for allowing their financial manager to either sign my name or allow someone else to use my signature without me being there.

What are the chances that the dealership itself will take that car back, retuern my downpayment and consider the lease closed or do they have a good fighntr against me that i am still responsible for the lease and its payments.
 
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CdwJava

Senior Member
Forgery generally requires an intent to defraud or gain something without the knowledge of the person whose name was forged. In this case YOU authorized the dealer to sign your name. SHOULD they have done this? Maybe not. Is it criminal? I doubt it.

Your best hope may be that you can just get out of the continuing lease payments. If you really want to fight them on this, consult an attorney. I can tell your right now that the police probably won't touch this at all.


- Carl
 

fireman06

Junior Member
Maybe I didnt explain

NJ - Let me explain better. I sent my step-daughter to look at cars witht he dealer, who is related to her aunt. Shen was not authorized to buy anything and espeecially not authorized to elase a brand new vehicle in my name. I was contacted while she was trhere by the individual from the car company and his question was not specific about any car. he was told what to show her and what she could afford. He asked me if I was putting the car in my name or co-signing and I said that for insurance reasons, out it in my name. She was not supposed to buy it, but only pick it out. Later than night she showed up with a brand new 4 year leased car and told me that she thought I straightened it out wiht the dealer. I told her I could not afford it and I wasn;t signing any papers on it at all. I called the dealer and he claims that she signed the used car as a trade in using my name ands then signed the lease in my name and they allowed her to do it and walk out with a new car. There has to be some type of fraud and forgery here otherwise anyone could do that to anyone.

I have since been contacted by the dealwer that they will take the car back no questions asked if I sign a waver, but does that mean she is clean in all of this. Can she be held as an 18 year old as liable for 2 counts of 3rd degree forgery by signing my name on contracts without my opermission or me being there.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Once again it falls under the scope of intent. It would have to be shown that she intended to defraud you (or someone) out of money or property. If she and the dealer both argue that your name was signed by proxy with your approval (as they understood it), then you probably will NOT be able to get criminal charges filed. It's a civil matter.

Simply signing a document is not generally fraud or forgery - the statutes almost always read that some form of intent is required.

I would think that unless there was intent to steal from you in some way that this is going to be seen as a civil matter. To be sure, you might want to call the local police. But, I think they will likely see it the same way.

However, there may be some detail or legal nuance that I am missing here.

- Carl
 
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grasmicc

Member
There's no law against signing someone else's name. Think about it - people frequently authorize their agents to sign documents for them. This is just part of agency.

The bottom line is you authorized these people to sign your name. Then, after the deal went down, you didn't whine about it for a while thus depleting any claim that the signature was unauthorized...

I'm not even sure you'd be able to win a civil suit under this scenario.
 
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fireman06

Junior Member
NJ - First of all I thank you for the information. I have been cointacted by the dealer and they are claiming that the financial ma=nager that aloloowed this girl to sign my name whether i was there or not, is responsible and their dealership is not allooowed by law to have a third party signature on contracts. They want me to coem oin and sign the car back to them with no liabil;ities or further costs at my end and they say they will go get the car back. All I ma saying is that if I sent her to look at used cars and told her to pick out something ina range that was affordable and she showed up home with a b=rand new lease signed in my name that I was unaware of and did not authorize, can they be held liable?
 

grasmicc

Member
"All I ma saying is that if I sent her to look at used cars and told her to pick out something ina range that was affordable and she showed up home with a brand new lease signed in my name that I was unaware of and did not authorize, can they be held liable?"

We're getting into some complex agency issues here. let me spell it out for you, legally.


(1) You authorized your step-daughter to act as your agent for purposes of buying a car. (BAD idea). You placed some limitations on her agency.

(2) You told the dealership that your daughter was your authorized agent, without telling them specifically about the limitations on her agency.

(3) From the perspective of the dealership, your daughter had "apparent authority" to act as your agent for purposes of buying the Accord. Thus, you are validly enterred into the contract for the car and your only legal recourse is to seek indemnification from the step-daughter for exceeding her authority.

The only person you have a valid claim against under these circumstances is the step-daughter. The dealership didn't even have to let you out of the contract - they are either mistaken about the law or have their own third-party contracts that were violated by this scenario.

In the future, do not authorize people to act as your agent unless you trust them to follow your directions and not exceed their authority.
 

mycarlb

Member
grasmicc said:
There's no law against signing someone else's name. Think about it - people frequently authorize their agents to sign documents for them. This is just part of agency.

The bottom line is you authorized these people to sign your name. Then, after the deal went down, you didn't whine about it for a while thus depleting any claim that the signature was unauthorized...

I'm not even sure you'd be able to win a civil suit under this scenario.
Wow, there is NO LAW against signing someone else's name... hhhmmmm, can i borrow your checkbook please? LOL... are you an idiot... there would not be a provision of the law called FORGERY if it wasn't against the law to do that... the man said he DID NOT give her permission to sign his name... but it's her word against his...

Carl is right, you need to file a civil suit in this case... IF you were out any money... you should have driven the car back to the dealer the same day she brought it home and you chose not too... that makes you look as if you did indeed approve of the sale...you are lucky the dealership is being so generous with you. Take this as a hard lesson learned...
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
mycarlb said:
Wow, there is NO LAW against signing someone else's name... hhhmmmm, can i borrow your checkbook please? LOL... are you an idiot... there would not be a provision of the law called FORGERY if it wasn't against the law to do that... the man said he DID NOT give her permission to sign his name... but it's her word against his...
In his defense, it's not the signing of the name that is the crime so much as the intent behind the signing.

I can forge my wife's signature on my son's reading report without penalty. I can't sign YOUR name to a legal document or a financial document without your permission ... and in some cases, I couldn't do it at all one wqay or the other.

Intent is the key ... in CA it is thus:

A person is guilty of forgery if he, with intent to defraud, signs the name of another, or of a fictitious person, knowing that he has no authority to do so, or falsely makes, alters, forges or counterfeits any of a long list of writings, or counterfeits or forges the seal or handwriting of another, or utters, publishes, passes or attempts to pass any of the above.

If there is NO provable intent to defraud, then the crime of forgery does not exist. I imagine similar intent provisions exist in the OP's state.

- Carl
 

fireman06

Junior Member
MY response again

nj - again let me say that i sent my step daughter there to look at used cars and for the dealer (brother in law at the time) to show her cars that werea ffordale to her being she is in school and had limited income of none at the time. I was under the immpression the entire night that she was going to pick out a used cara dn I would then go and sign the papers once they were processed or he would hold them for me. When she showed up home with a brand new lease, I told her she was crazy and it had to go back. She took the car to show her friends and her and I spoke and I told her that she would have to scarafice everythong sshe does including college because the car payments and insurnace would kill her. She agreed but i also told her I was not signign a thuing until i talked to Mike. I spoke to mIke and he said it worked out better for her and she said she was paying for it anyway and I told him he can sign the papers because I wasnt signing anything. She did not scarafacie anyhting and two moths later my eife threw me out and this kid is driving this car in my name and of course I had to oput insurance on it being it is inm my name and they refuse to bring it back. they aremaking the payments but I haveto cobver the insurance or at least for the time being in case theyb hit something.
 

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