Fraud or Not?

[stlouisbob]

What is the name of your state?
Vermont.

I have one general and one legal question at this time.

General:
Why would a mother not use HER real name on her childs birth certificate?

Legal:
What law or statute would prevent me from obtaining custody of my child, since she can not prove she is the mother without admitting to fraud.

Of course, she is the mother. I am going to take her to court, after a recent email to me, she admitted that she was married to another man at the time of the childs conception and birth. This is devestating!! Why would she tell me this after 15 years. I loved this child.

If anyone has any advice I'll continue this thread with additional background information on the case.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state?
Vermont.

I have one general and one legal question at this time.

General:
Why would a mother not use HER real name on her childs birth certificate?

Legal:
What law or statute would prevent me from obtaining custody of my child, since she can not prove she is the mother without admitting to fraud.

Of course, she is the mother. I am going to take her to court, after a recent email to me, she admitted that she was married to another man at the time of the childs conception and birth. This is devestating!! Why would she tell me this after 15 years. I loved this child.

If anyone has any advice I'll continue this thread with additional background information on the case.

Go get a consult with a local attorney......and think about the child...you are contemplating opening up a MAJOR can of worms. Mom can prove maternity through DNA just as easily as you could prove/disprove paternity through DNA.

 

[stlouisbob]

Go get a consult with a local attorney......and think about the child...you are contemplating opening up a MAJOR can of worms. Mom can prove maternity through DNA just as easily as you could prove/disprove paternity through DNA.

Your right about the can of worms.
I am thinking about the child, I honestly believe a child has a God given and a constitutional right to know their real biological father. I have always wondered why the mother would never let me have any contact or even a picture of the baby. It makes sense now, I believe she is not sure who the biological father is. Which makes me wonder. This is why I am going to court.

But it is not easy to prove my paternity after so much time has elaspse. I got lucky when she mistakenly told me her husbands name. She did it in a email in which I documented and verified her IP address. I can now file a motion under Rule 60.. in which it states that I can only bring the issue of paternity up due to fraud,duress or material mistake of fact. The birth certificate and marriage should be conclusive evidence that she knew of another possible biological father.

Vermont also is one of the first states to have a Paternity Fraud Law - which make it a crime to not name all potential biological fathers.

All laws and cases that I have researched states that the biological father of the child is the husband of the marriage regardless of DNA testing. He would have to sign a declaration of non-paternity before some one else was named the biological father.

The law does not work when some one lies or misleads the courts. That is why they have fraud laws.

Everyone says that about the interests of the child.. It might not look like I care for the child, but trust me I do. I am willing to give up Everything for her to know the truth. What are we teaching our children when we lie to them!!

Anyway, thanks for the response. Every opinion is welcomed.

 

[ceara19]

What have you been up to for the past 15 YEARS that has prevented you from taking legal action to establish a relationship with this child?

 

[LdiJ]

What have you been up to for the past 15 YEARS that has prevented you from taking legal action to establish a relationship with this child?

I am not sure that he is indicating that he doesn't have a relationship with the child....just that he is finding out after 15 years that he may not be the bio-dad. His first post was somewhat contradictory....on one hand he says things that would lead us to believe that he has never met the child, yet on the other he says things that could lead us to believe that he did have a relationship with the child.

Personally, I think that he is the lowest of the low. He wants to tear apart a 15 year old's world in the guise of telling her the "truth". Should she know the truth eventually? Sure....but at this point it can and should wait until she is an adult and better equipped to handle things.

I have a feeling that child support has something to do with this whole thing.

 

[weenor]

I have a feeling that child support has something to do with this whole thing.

Yep and I'll bet he thinks he will get his money refunded. LOL

 

[stlouisbob]

Your missing the questions and the point.

You are missing the legal questions. LDiJ

But if you would like we can turn this into a moral discussion.

I have no intention on tearing anyone’s life apart, where do you come up with that? That makes me laugh, only because you have no idea of the situation and you instantly jumped to some conclusion that your life must pertain to.

So let's see how low you can go.

If you find out that your child is doing something wrong, are you telling me you would do nothing until she is an adult??

Well I am not going to wait that long!! If I do not do something NOW it will be to late when she is an adult. THAT'S the problem!! We teach our children to lie when we lie to them.
At what age should the child be told?

I do not want to bring the courts into this, they stop caring when the child is 18, what about the rest of the child’s life??

I need help, even though you think I am as "low as it goes”, I'm not, and I am sorry that you think that. It does look like that, and if I had read this a year ago, I would have said the same thing.

Things change when they happen to you personally. There is a lot more at stake here.

I am just looking for some free advice... Again all pro's and cons are welcomed.

?? Talk to me LDiJ, I like you. Tell me if I am wrong!!! If you convince me I am wrong, than I will not pursue this matter.

You have not with the slanderous remarks!

What would a 16 year old child not understand?

The relationship I have with her will never change. I love her. No matter what.
I still believe she has the right to know if I am her real bio-dad.

Do you have children?????????? hmmmmmmm?

 

[LdiJ]

I am the mother of a teenage girl, (older than yours, but still a teenager) the grandmother of an infant, and I was once a teenage girl myself.

In my opinion the absolute worst thing that you can do to a teenage girl is to suddenly spill this kind of thing on them. It causes them to question their entire identity. They can handle it better at a younger age, they can handle it better as an adult....but the teenage years are the WORST years to have that kind of upset. You have no idea what kind of spiral you could send this child into.

She is NOT being taught to lie, because she has no idea that anyone MIGHT be lying to her.
She is not doing anything wrong and she doesn't deserve to be punished for the potential sins of the adults in her life.

Its not mom who is going to suffer, in a major way, for this mess, its the teenager......and she is the most innocent party in the whole thing.

Now, to get back to your legal questions. This is NOT going to cause mom to lose custody. In fact, if its determined that you are not biologically the father, and you are successful in getting your legal responsibilities terminated, then you absolutely could not be granted custody, because you would be a legal stranger with no standing.

Even if you are not the biological father, but are not able to terminate your legal fatherhood, then you still would have little to no chance at custody, because a judge would be highly unlikely to give custody to a parent who tried to prove that their teenage child, was not actually their child.

Now....a mother might put the wrong name on her child's birth certificate if she believes that she has the right to use that name. I see it happen all the time with other legal documents....women using married names when they haven't actually been through the process of changing their name, but don't realize that....and women using their maiden name, when they haven't been through the process of changing it back, but don't realize that. Its QUITE common.

Because women's names sometimes change more than once in their lifetimes, you would not be able to use that to state that mom can't prove she is the mother....or that she committed fraud. She also can prove maternity through a DNA test.

I am sorry, but I believe that you are letting your desire for revenge overtake compassion and common sense. You aren't doing what you are doing for the child's sake, you are doing it for yours and trying to justify it in your own mind as being "for the child".

 

[stlouisbob]

ok, now we getting somewhere

Your right!!

What you stated IS the problem, the spiral effect already started.
The child after seeing her birth certificate and seeing the husbands name on it, is questioning who is her father.

See, I knew you were intelligent.

To all that think child support is an issue.. It is not.

By your response you would have questioned your own identity. That is where the child is now!!

LDiJ, so now what do I do, I want to prove I am the father without question.
I am not doing this to prove I'm not, but to prove I am. The mother will not cooperate, which leads me to believe she is not even sure.

The only way I can do this is to show fraud on the mothers part. I believe that by her putting her husbands name on the birth certificate, she knew I might not be the father.

Within the next 10 years the followiing law will be in every state:

It is hereby enacted by the General Assembly of the State of Vermont:
Sec. 1. 13 V.S.A. § 2026 is added to read:
§ 2026. PATERNITY FRAUD
A person who knowingly and intentionally alleges that a person is the biological father of a child when such person knows the allegation to be false shall be imprisoned not more than two years or fined not more than $5,000.00, or both.

She even broke the law, she told me she was divorced when we started going out. We did not move in together until 2 months before the child was born. Now I find out she was still married at the time of the childs birth. Women know if their married or not, there is no mistake there. Come on, I understand a mistake of name, but really.. You know if you are married or not, no one could make that mistake. What she did was use a combination of her married and maiden name. It was never a legal name anytime.

Legally the husband is the biological father. The child was of their marriage..

You have convinced me to keep pursing the matter. By your own statement the child is questioning her identity.

At this point, would you have wanted to know the truth?

Thanks for you reply,

 

[AHA]

At this point, would you have wanted to know the truth?

Would YOU have wanted to know if you were the teen in this situation?

I was withheld major family secrets for a couple of years as a teen and when the lid finally blew, I almost totally shunned several family members for several years because of the betrayal and lack of confidence in my ability to handle it. Not every teen is the same and not every teen is going to fall apart for bad news they get. Some handle serious stuff better than adults. You know the girl better than any of us, so we can't really say if you should tell her or not.

 

[stlouisbob]

HA - AHA, Good question?

Would YOU have wanted to know if you were the teen in this situation?

That question I can honestly answer Yes! The teen does not know what to think at this point. She already seen the birth certificate. It is going to be up to the mom or myself to make things right.

I was withheld major family secrets for a couple of years as a and when the lid finally blew, I almost totally shunned several family members for several years because of the betrayal and lack of confidence in my ability to handle it.

I am sorry to hear this, I hope the lid is okay now. I am not being sarcastic, I just do not know how to respond. If you are telling me you have lived through a similiar situation then you are the expert I need to listen to..

It sounds like you have dealt with your situation well, How old are you? Would you as an adult lie to your children after this happened to you. I read confidence in your statement, so tell me the truth after all these years.

Do you wish it never happened?

Thanks for your words of wisdom, nobody really know anything, unless they have lived it. You can PM if you like.

 

[ceara19]

Would YOU have wanted to know if you were the teen in this situation?

I was withheld major family secrets for a couple of years as a teen and when the lid finally blew, I almost totally shunned several family members for several years because of the betrayal and lack of confidence in my ability to handle it. Not every teen is the same and not every teen is going to fall apart for bad news they get. Some handle serious stuff better than adults. You know the girl better than any of us, so we can't really say if you should tell her or not.

I agree. I found out my parents had lied to me for over 20 years before I knew that My "dad" wasn't my biological father. I was seriously pissed. I felt as though my entire life was just been 1 great big lie.

 

[AHA]

That question I can honestly answer Yes! The teen does not know what to think at this point. She already seen the birth certificate. It is going to be up to the mom or myself to make things right.




I am sorry to hear this, I hope the lid is okay now. I am not being sarcastic, I just do not know how to respond. If you are telling me you have lived through a similiar situation then you are the expert I need to listen to..

It sounds like you have dealt with your situation well, How old are you? Would you as an adult lie to your children after this happened to you. I read confidence in your statement, so tell me the truth after all these years.

Do you wish it never happened?

Thanks for your words of wisdom, nobody really know anything, unless they have lived it. You can PM if you like.

Even if the news is something that might be difficult for the teen to deal with, I still think she should be told asap. I am a firm believer in, obviously not intentionally "hurt" a teen, but to not shelter them from the world and all the emotions she will experience at some time in her life.

I'm in my early 30s now, and all the hurt and bad news I got as younger has only made me stronger and more confident that I can handle stuff like that. Pain builds caracter, unfortunately.

The vital thing about telling a child/teen something that is going to rock their world, is that mom and you (even if you're not her biodad) tell her together, and make sure that you are there for her with all the support you can give. That's what helped me through a lot of stuff, knowing that I had 2 parents that loved me and wanted to help me through it.
If you ensure her that you feel no different about her, she won't feel like she is losing a dad.
It's a tough situation and I don't envy you to have to tell her something like that, but the truth is always the best policy. You seem to care for her a great deal, so I'm sure she'll be fine if she has you two to lean on.

Feel free to let us know how it went.
Good luck

 

[stlouisbob]

Even if the news is something that might be difficult for the teen to deal with, I still think she should be told asap. I am a firm believer in, obviously not intentionally "hurt" a teen, but to not shelter them from the world and all the emotions she will experience at some time in her life.

I'm in my early 30s now, and all the hurt and bad news I got as younger has only made me stronger and more confident that I can handle stuff like that. Pain builds caracter, unfortunately.

The vital thing about telling a child/teen something that is going to rock their world, is that mom and you (even if you're not her biodad) tell her together, and make sure that you are there for her with all the support you can give. That's what helped me through a lot of stuff, knowing that I had 2 parents that loved me and wanted to help me through it.
If you ensure her that you feel no different about her, she won't feel like she is losing a dad.
It's a tough situation and I don't envy you to have to tell her something like that, but the truth is always the best policy. You seem to care for her a great deal, so I'm sure she'll be fine if she has you two to lean on.

Feel free to let us know how it went.
Good luck

Thanks, You expressed yourself unremarkably!

A true friend is some one who reaches for your hand and touches your heart.

Thanks friend!