Frustrated custodial parents wants a change in custody

[thndrnsnow]

What is the name of your state? VA

My divorce and last custody order was 12 years ago. At that time I got primary custody of our 2 boys. Their father got liberal visitation to include summers. He was in the military and traveled so it was what made sense at that time. Over the years summer visits were a nightmare, he would cancel at the last minute for one reason or another or he would have the boys for the summer and when they came home had no shoes, needed to be bathed, needed haircuts, etc. He left the boys home alone while he worked the 3-11 or 11-7 shifts. Every summer was an argument over their well being. The boys are both older now and can physically care for themselves and can be left home in the evenings. Not to mention he is now married again and has 2 other children under 5 years old.

Our 15 year old has become uncontrollable. Very angry, very stubborn and head strong. He is failing school. He will not respect the rules of my house. Every day is a constant argument between he and I or he and his younger brother who is 13. I take away privileges and/or ground him and he sneaks out anyway. It has gotten to the point that neither the 13 yr old brother or I want to be around the 15 year old.

Their father has never been around on a constant basis to deal with day to day problems and will get on the phone with the 15 yr old and basically tell him he needs to call down and listen to his mother but as soon as we hang up the phone he starts fighting and screaming again. Right now he is grounded for the last week of school. He told me tonight that he is going out this week regardless of what I say.

In the past year the father has said he will let our son live with him if things get really bad. He seems to think he has a magic wand and things will be completely different for him. Maybe that will be the case and we could all benefit. That being said the new wife is traveling during the summer just so she and their children are not around when our boys are there. She said she can't handle being around them.

My question is what do I need to do to change the custody to his father? And when we get down to the actual move what if the father decides that he can't handle it? or his new wife refuses to let our son live there? I think the father agrees to him living there just because he doesn't think it will ever happen. At this point our 13 yr old and I cannot live healthy lives with the disruptive 15 yr old here. This may sound selfish, but I have been the responsible full time parent. for 12 yrs while the father just shows it lip service and it is his turn.

If the father will not take him what are my options? I do want my son to be happy, healthy, and grow into a productive young man and do not just want to give up on him. I know I am responsible for his care but where do I draw the line?What is the name of your state?

 

[4kids4me]

The father has to agree to the change in custody first off. If he doesn't for whatever reason you can't MAKE him be responsible for the boy. That said this is what I Have to say to you. Noone ever said that being a parent was going to be easy or smooth sailing. What kind of parent says its to hard to parent my child so he needs to go somewhere else. Parenting a teenager is rough plain and simple. You are the parent if your child leaves the house when he is grounded and takes off if it is after call the cops and have them pick him up maybe that will scare him. You know what maybe if your son knew that his mom loved him enough to fight for him he wouldn'tl be getting into so much trouble. You can't ever give up on your child. Have you tried getting help. Children do not come with a receipt to trade them in when they are broken. You are the parent you need to help your son overcome whatever he is going through. That's what parents do. Take parenting classes get into counseling do whatever you need to do just DONT GIVE UP ON YOUR SON. If you give up on him he will give up on himself. No matter what he acts like children NEED their parents even if they don't realize it.

 

[thndrnsnow]

I feel guilty enough about the situation. Thanks for hitting it home.

I do not want to give up on my son. We have been in family counseling, he has seen a counselor on his own. We have all been in and out of counseling for 10 years. And I even called the police 3 times when he went out when he wasn't supposed to. The first time they brought him home and gave him a stern talking to, the second time they did the same thing and the 3rd time they criticized me for calling them saying they had no legal authority in a family matter and told me I could petition the court to take him into custody and put him into the system. Obviously that will not help him. Take him out of a caring home and put him into a system with children who have no parents is not a better solution. You may say my home is not a caring home but you do not know me or the full details of the situation. I show my son love even when he is not following the rules and is in trouble. I have exhausted every avenue I know. He is has always been a very angry child. Several physiologists were very concerned over the years when he would express his disappointment in his father not being around or showing that he cared, they tried to give him ways to handle the feelings of abandonment and lack of love from his father. He was always telling me how angry he was at his father, but would never express it to him. Until the past 2 years...He started expressing his anger toward me and his younger brother instead. We are the ones who are here with him on a daily basis hence making it easy to take out his anger on us. He physically hits his brother for no reason at all. He is now getting up in my face screaming at me and has been very close to striking me too. Now that he realizes he is bigger than I am I feel it is only a matter of time until he does strike out. He is destructive, has broken a window, and punched or kicked several holes in the walls. The smallest thing will set him off.....today for instance he wanted a cell phone so he could call me when he is out with his friends. I told him I would purchase a regular cell phone with prepaid minutes. He started screaming at me in the middle of the mall because he wanted the cell phone that had picture messaging, MP3 capabilities and Internet access. I tried to explain to him that I could not afford such a phone for him and as he was screaming at the top of his lungs every vulgar word imaginable he turned around and kicked his brother as hard as he possibly could and knocked the shopping bags out of my hands. We immediately left the mall with him screaming at me the whole time.

I firmly believe in caring for my children and showing them love and attention. But in this case there has to be a line that can be drawn. Not only am I concerned about my sanity but my younger son's mental health dealing with his anger on a daily basis and I am concerned for our safety, specifically for my younger son because he is very calm, laid back and does not know how to defend himself or fight back.

He has expressed interest in living with his father and his father has done the same. I just need to know what I can do to facilitate that change. And to ensure that his father can not just send him home the first time he gets into a fight with him. Or that my son cannot return to my house when he gets there and realizes he still has to follow rules. Moving back and forth will only exasperate the situation.

I do believe he needs his parents, otherwise I would have petitioned the courts to take him over a year ago. I am just saying that at this point he needs his father to help with the discipline and anger issues. I personally feel he is better equipted to handle an angry 15 yr old and maybe a fresh start will benefit him. It is not like I will drop him off in NY state with his father and never look back.

 

[4kids4me]

I'm sorry but I stand by what I say its your job to deal with it you made that child. My younger brother was a lot like your son but my parents never gave up they let him know they wouldnt give up on him even if he wanted them to. He was in and out of Juvie jail and as an adult jail. He has since straightened up after a long battle. But he thanks my parents all the time for having faith in him and never giving up because if they had he would have given up on himself. The same will happen to your son if you give up on him he will give up on himself I dont know about you but that is not the legacy I want to leave my children.

 

[thndrnsnow]

I don't know why you keep thinking that I am giving up on my son. I am trying to help him. At this stage I think him living with his father is the best option for him. I could put him in military school, or I could send him away to one of those "trouble teen" camps, or I could petition the courts to take him as suggested by the police on their 3rd visit. I firmly believe that living with his father is the best of all those options. He obviously does not respect me or his brother enough to follow the rules. Maybe his father will have better luck with enforcing the rules. I cannot be sure until we try it. As I said I do NOT have a plan to just drop him off and never look back again.

I am trying to find a solution before he spirals so far out of control to the point that he will be placed in juvenile hall for breaking the law or grows up and spends time in prison. Kudos to your brother for straightening out his life. Have you looked at statistics for people who spend time in juvenile hall or prison. Your brother is the minority. Typically those that enter any criminal justice system wind up becoming career criminals.

What do you suggest, allowing him to stay with me while he continues to be destructive, disruptive, abusive to me and his younger brother? At this point he knows there is nothing I can do to stop him from breaking all the rules and doing whatever he wants. Nothing I can do short of quitting my job and staying home 24 hours a day and locking him in his room at night while we sleep to ensure he doesn't leave. That is not an option because then I will be on another forum...one where I am being evicted from my house and we are all living on the streets. I am at a cross roads, I allow him to continue to be disruptive and disrespectful causing harm to not only himself but the rest of the family members or making a change by sending him to live with his father in hopes that his father will be able to do something I have not been able to do.

I do have another child to consider here. How does a caring parent not "give up", as you keep calling it, on one child while protecting and the other?

 

[4kids4me]

You at this point don't even know if the his wife will allow your son in her house. You said she leaves when they come visit. Why on earth would you want to send your son where he is not wanted by her and make him feel like that? And I'm sorry but it is your job to protect both your children. I dont care how big my kids are they have enough respect for me to never think of hitting me or there siblings because I have raised them that way I was loving but strict. Hitting was and is never an option in my house and they wouldnt even think about doing it.

 

[4kids4me]

Another option is moving real close to his father so that if he does act up you can call the dad and he can come right over have you given that some thought. That way not only do you get dads help but your son isnt in a home with a step mom who doesnt want him there and your son doesnt feel like you shipped him off because he is a lot of trouble. It might take work but hes your son.

 

[thndrnsnow]

You at this point don't even know if the his wife will allow your son in her house. You said she leaves when they come visit. Why on earth would you want to send your son where he is not wanted by her and make him feel like that? And I'm sorry but it is your job to protect both your children. I dont care how big my kids are they have enough respect for me to never think of hitting me or there siblings because I have raised them that way I was loving but strict. Hitting was and is never an option in my house and they wouldnt even think about doing it.

You are correct I do not know for sure if his father's house is going to be a feasible option. His father has expressed interest of wanting him to live there. Actually he flat out told me he could stay there. How he and his wife chose to work out the details is their business. Of course I would not want him to be there if she is going to show him or tell him that she does not want him around. The reason I posted to this forum was to get advice on how to legally change primary custody to his father if the decision is made. Like I posted before this arrangement needs to be a legal and official one and not one where my son can go back and forth on a whim. If his father chooses not to make this legal and is not willing to see things through for more than a couple of weeks or months I think it will be more detrimental to all involved and that option will be off the table.

You are very vocal on expressing your opinions on what I am responsible for and judging me like not "giving up", and how "I made him" and I have to deal with the problem and how it is "my responsibility to protect both children", but you have given me no advice how to accomplish those things eventhough I have explained in detail what I have tried that has not worked.

I am happy for you that you have children that respect you as a parent and they would never hit you. Unfortunately my older son does not respect me in that manner eventhough I have raised him thus far while being strict and caring parent. Hitting has never been an option in my house either. The only person that has ever hit is my older son. Each child is different and has their own personality and will. By younger son has always made the choice to follow rules and his quiet, well behaved, and respects me and all others around him. He has always done well in school and has always been described as a very polite respectful child. My older son on the other hand has made different choices eventhough they have both been raised with the same rules, same punishments, same rewards, and the same circumstances. If anything the younger son is lacking more of my love and attention due to the fact that my attention and time are constantly spent handling situations with my older son.

Unfortunately some children who are raised by caring parents still have behavior problems.

Until you are in my situation with the same circumstances you should not judge me as a non-caring parent. And from your previous post it sounds as if our situations are quiet different.

 

[thndrnsnow]

Another option is moving real close to his father so that if he does act up you can call the dad and he can come right over have you given that some thought. That way not only do you get dads help but your son isnt in a home with a step mom who doesnt want him there and your son doesnt feel like you shipped him off because he is a lot of trouble. It might take work but hes your son.

Now that is actual advice instead of judgement. Thank you.

His father lives in a very small town of NY state where the employment rate is very low and there are absolutely no job opportunitites in my line of work. I live in the DC Metropolitain area and work as a techincal security engineer in a specialized and highly sought after field. His father works in the medical field in which he can find employment in almost every city in the world even the small ones. If I could sustain my family financially I would be more than willing to move close to his father but unfortunately I can't. I have asked his father to move closer to us for years. He has choosen not to move back to the city.

 

[Ohiogal]

In order to change custody with father's permission you need to file an agreed entry with the court stating that you have agreed to older son living with dad and dealing with child support -- how much you are going to pay him.

 

[thndrnsnow]

In order to change custody with father's permission you need to file an agreed entry with the court stating that you have agreed to older son living with dad and dealing with child support -- how much you are going to pay him.

That leads to my next question. His father is over 12K behind on his support payments to me. 2 full yrs of non-payment and other missed payments here and there. To keep the peace I never took him to court to collect the back support because I felt that the little relationship he had with the boys was more important than if they lost him completely over legal battles. I know the legal proceedings should have nothing to do with their personal relationship but I think I know him pretty well....he would cut all contact to the point I could not find him if he was served with paperwork. Not to mention, I know that in those times when he didn't pay he was struggling financially himself. And you can't get blood from a turnip. These missed payments occurred several years ago and he is now back on his feet and trying to catch up by adding a little extra to the support payments each month.

What is your advice in approaching this with me not paying him support but forgiving the back support that is already owed? My feeling is he would be in agreement with this arrangement.

If there are legal circumstances that require me to pay him the support for the time he is there because this is the present and his missed payment were in the past then I am capable and willing to do so.

 

[GrowUp!]

What is your advice in approaching this with me not paying him support but forgiving the back support that is already owed? My feeling is he would be in agreement with this arrangement.

YOU are the only one who can truly answer that. You acknowledge that he was struggling financially. You also value the relationship between the parent and child over the $$ (not too many do that). You can agree to wipe out a portion or all of the arrearage that is owed. It's up to you.

If there are legal circumstances that require me to pay him the support for the time he is there because this is the present and his missed payment were in the past then I am capable and willing to do so.

If I am understanding this question correctly...if the child goes and lives w/the other parent, then (depending on your incomes), you could be paying the other parent support (that is if you agreed to wipe out the arrearage).

 

[Ohiogal]

This is going to be a concern to the judge -- you want your child to go live with someone who has not paid support in over two years and who -- if served with documents outlining his legal responsibilities and trying to enforce such -- would walk away from his kids. Yet you think this man having custody of a minor child is in the best interest of said minor child? I think the judge would have a very hard time approving any shared agreement with those facts.

 

[LdiJ]

That leads to my next question. His father is over 12K behind on his support payments to me. 2 full yrs of non-payment and other missed payments here and there. To keep the peace I never took him to court to collect the back support because I felt that the little relationship he had with the boys was more important than if they lost him completely over legal battles. I know the legal proceedings should have nothing to do with their personal relationship but I think I know him pretty well....he would cut all contact to the point I could not find him if he was served with paperwork. Not to mention, I know that in those times when he didn't pay he was struggling financially himself. And you can't get blood from a turnip. These missed payments occurred several years ago and he is now back on his feet and trying to catch up by adding a little extra to the support payments each month.

What is your advice in approaching this with me not paying him support but forgiving the back support that is already owed? My feeling is he would be in agreement with this arrangement.

If there are legal circumstances that require me to pay him the support for the time he is there because this is the present and his missed payment were in the past then I am capable and willing to do so.

If each of you have one child...then there may not be any child support owed either direction. It depends on your respective incomes.

What I would do is calculate the CS that you would owe dad for one child, and the CS that dad would owe you for one child**************....and then try to agree that dad will pay you the child support for one child, and that any amount due to him would be deducted from the arrearages until they are used up. When the arrearages are used up, you can revisit the issue of child support.....asumming that the older child isn't a legal adult by then.

 

[Nesto]

thndrnsnow, turn on your PM. I can send you some useful info.