FYI: Info On Having "Less Than A Honorable Discharge"

[SHORTY LONG]

What is the name of your state? OHIO

The purpose of this post is to educate those who seem to [think] that, by
having a "less than honorable discharge" is no big deal in the world!

Moreover, there has never ever been an [employment discrimination case]
based solely upon a "less than honorable discharge" that has ever succeeded
in the "Court System" to date!

The following links, will provide insight to the [stigma] and consequences a
servicemember bears, in having a "less than honorable discharge." The
third link provides an in depth viable discussion on 'The Gravity of having a
less than honorable discharge,' and it includes Federal Court Cases!

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0041-9494(197323)41:1<164:DPIUDP>2.0.CO;2-S

http://www.smdc.army.mil/ADR/percon/perconF.htm

http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/Military_Law_Review/pdf-files/277C73~1.pdf

http://www.hqda.army.mil/ari/pdf/s51.pdf

 

[Taken83oveR]

I read the first and 2nd links. The 2nd link just involved personal conduct mumbo jumbo, and has little to do with a OTH.

The first link, written in 1973, just say's that a OTH , takes away your benefits and "may", effect your civilian career.

How a OTH effects you, is based on what type of career you are prosuing. For most of us, no longer wanting to work for the government, it will have very little effect. How many stories do you see on here with member's stating that a OTH has ruined there civilian employement opportunities or there lives? Slim to none.

So, Shorty, quit trying to worry those who do not know any better, then to listen to your non sense. Those who wanted out of the military, but unit's would not help them, took the OTH way out. Does this make them a terrible person? No. Ruin there career's? No. Ruin there lifes? No.

These people who wanted out of the military so bad are better off with a OTH and will have more success in the civilian world with a OTH, then they ever would of if they decided to stay in the military.

A OTH, has far less of a impact on alot of individuals, then the choice of staying in the military. I know of alot more individuals who's lifes was ruined because they stayed in the military. If they would of gotten out sooner, maybe they would still have use of there knee's etc... or there family life would be a bit better etc.... You are just a number to the military, and there benifit's they give you for the rest of your life, is a steep price to pay for risk you take staying in the military.

Just one man's opinion.

 

[SHORTY LONG]

I read the first and 2nd links. The 2nd link just involved personal conduct mumbo jumbo, and has little to do with a OTH.

The first link, written in 1973, just say's that a OTH , takes away your benefits and "may", effect your civilian career.

How a OTH effects you, is based on what type of career you are prosuing. For most of us, no longer wanting to work for the government, it will have very little effect. How many stories do you see on here with member's stating that a OTH has ruined there civilian employement opportunities or there lives? Slim to none.

So, Shorty, quit trying to worry those who do not know any better, then to listen to your non sense. Those who wanted out of the military, but unit's would not help them, took the OTH way out. Does this make them a terrible person? No. Ruin there career's? No. Ruin there lifes? No.

These people who wanted out of the military so bad are better off with a OTH and will have more success in the civilian world with a OTH, then they ever would of if they decided to stay in the military.

A OTH, has far less of a impact on alot of individuals, then the choice of staying in the military. I know of alot more individuals who's lifes was ruined because they stayed in the military. If they would of gotten out sooner, maybe they would still have use of there knee's etc... or there family life would be a bit better etc.... You are just a number to the military, and there benifit's they give you for the rest of your life, is a steep price to pay for risk you take staying in the military.

Just one man's opinion.

You missed the best one, that is the [third link ] that has Supreme Court, and
Federal Case Law. In fact, to a degree, it provided me with a bit more insight to
my present 34 years of experience in this arena! And not much has changed
since this publication of 1973 in the types of discharges given by the Military
to date!

 

[rppearso]

I read through the 3rd article and colleges and professional licensure look into the details of the OTH so unless you were discharged for reasons relating to the field you were seeking licensure in you will likely not be denied a licence, and I know engineering and scientists they dont care at all about discharge type also the OTH does not effect security clearances unless the details of your OTH have something specific that could preclude you from a clearance (plus I have cited resources showing that an OTH discharge will not effect financial aid eligability, security clearances providing mitigating factors, etc). The information contained in the 3rd artical was subjective at best and it was stated that most of the automatic job turn downs were for a bonified dishonorable discharge, OTH's were looked into. This all goes back to the gas pumping, if you work in a carrer field where you are easily expendable you may have a harder time with your OTH, but if you are in a highly skilled and highly professional carrer field (engineers, scientists, doctors, etc) the OTH will be irrelavant. I will agree shorty long that I would rather have no past affiliation with the military in the first place but if someone is forced into an OTH its not really that big of a deal. I do wonder if your not a military hardliner posing as a BCD discharge for 34 years to scare people into staying in the military.

 

[SHORTY LONG]

I read through the 3rd article and colleges and professional licensure look into the details of the OTH so unless you were discharged for reasons relating to the field you were seeking licensure in you will likely not be denied a licence, and I know engineering and scientists they dont care at all about discharge type also the OTH does not effect security clearances unless the details of your OTH have something specific that could preclude you from a clearance (plus I have cited resources showing that an OTH discharge will not effect financial aid eligability, security clearances providing mitigating factors, etc). The information contained in the 3rd artical was subjective at best and it was stated that most of the automatic job turn downs were for a bonified dishonorable discharge, OTH's were looked into. This all goes back to the gas pumping, if you work in a carrer field where you are easily expendable you may have a harder time with your OTH, but if you are in a highly skilled and highly professional carrer field (engineers, scientists, doctors, etc) the OTH will be irrelavant. I will agree shorty long that I would rather have no past affiliation with the military in the first place but if someone is forced into an OTH its not really that big of a deal. I do wonder if your not a military hardliner posing as a BCD discharge for 34 years to scare people into staying in the military.

Once A Marine Always A Marine. First, you are correct about receiving financial aide for school unless you have a dishonorable discharge. And not to further this, copy down the Supreme Court & Federal cases and READ THEM. If by chance you are unable to get them from the Internet, then, if your school has a Law Library, then, by all means use it; and if not, then I hope one is relatively close to you to use. You do not have to be a Law student to use it, and the Law Librarian is very knowledgeable and very helpful.

 

[SHORTY LONG]

Once A Marine Always A Marine. First, you are correct about receiving financial aide for school unless you have a dishonorable discharge. And not to further this, copy down the Supreme Court & Federal cases and READ THEM. If by chance you are unable to get them from the Internet, then, if your school has a Law Library, then, by all means use it; and if not, then I hope one is relatively close to you to use. You do not have to be a Law student to use it, and the Law Librarian is very knowledgeable and very helpful.

Additionally, correct me if I am wrong: you are studying for your PE License
yes? Then, contact the licensing Board and ask to speak with a License Examiner
and inquire about "Military Discharges," and if possible, ask them to send you
an application to take your license and read over it! Lastly, it is true that some
States are not as stern in licensing and in gainful employment as other States are!

 

[rppearso]

I did ask the licencing board of my state and they said military status is irrelavant. As it turns out I found out that as national guard I dont even have to worry about UCMJ action so I can not be OTHed or otherwise so I imagine I will likely be ELSed or given a general admin discharge. I have limited time so I have not read the court cases since they probably dont apply to national guard anyways but I did read most of the 3rd article and I will say it again it has to do with how expendable you are and what you do, regardless of court battles no employer has to turn you down by law if you have an OTH so if they need skilled and professional people they will not hesitate to hire you if you posses the skills they need and the only thing on your record is an OTH for something totally irrelavant to the job you are taking (ie not being able to adapt to intense abuse and hazing and subhuman treatment).

 

[SHORTY LONG]

I did ask the licencing board of my state and they said military status is irrelavant. As it turns out I found out that as national guard I dont even have to worry about UCMJ action so I can not be OTHed or otherwise so I imagine I will likely be ELSed or given a general admin discharge. I have limited time so I have not read the court cases since they probably dont apply to national guard anyways but I did read most of the 3rd article and I will say it again it has to do with how expendable you are and what you do, regardless of court battles no employer has to turn you down by law if you have an OTH so if they need skilled and professional people they will not hesitate to hire you if you posses the skills they need and the only thing on your record is an OTH for something totally irrelavant to the job you are taking (ie not being able to adapt to intense abuse and hazing and subhuman treatment).

I wish you all the success in your endeavors!

 

[lizjimbo]

You will rue the day with an OTH

I requested an OTH in 1972 in lieu of a Special Court Martial. I was in the Navy and I had a big problem being stateside. I didn't want to hang around some grimy Navy base when home and buds were a 2 hour hitch hike away. Needless to say, my crime was awol. Always turned myself in when I couldn't mooch off friends anymore, Got tired of waking up in the woods with mosquito bites, etc. If they only would have kept me out at sea. I even volunteered to go to Vietnam, but when my orders finally came thru, where was I, awol. Orders got cancelled. I was somewhat of a misfit...that is what did me in for the next 20+ years..not the OTH. Of course, try explaining to your children about your military service. Try explaining to friends you make when you finally grow up about your military service. For all those that think an OTH is a free ticket, the regrets will be many. The OTH did not prevent me from finally becoming a sober success, however it was a big mistake..something you cannot go back and correct. For all those full of youthful exurberance...when in doubt, don't do it. Finish your service. You will be proud of yourself in the future...not hiding from your past.

 

[rppearso]

I guess it just depends on your reasons for getting the OTH. Myn were partly religious, the manner and tone in which the military keeps order and gives orders (lawful or not) is against scripture.