Georgia Probation/Sex Offenders: weird self-contradictory clause needs clarification

[gbrl]

GA sex offender probation: new questions about legal document (see my last post; #29)

Please, let's not turn this thread into a flame war about how much we hate sex offenders and child molesters; I hate them too, we all hate them, and they should be slapped on the wrist/jailed briefly/thrown in prison for years/thrown in prison for life/tortured/killed/sent immediately to hell/whatever. That's not the mission of this thread, so play nice and act like adults.

I am on Georgia probation (though serving it in another state through interstate compact) for some mind-numbingly stupid, inappropriate stuff I did when I was 20; I was just recently released from incarceration (I'm now 29). That's not really relevant either, but I know somebody's going to ask, and that's all I feel like is any of your business (enterprising people may research to find out more, but they're the nosy type that I'm not talking to with this post, anyway).

In any case, the Georgia probation has a long list of "special conditions" for sex offenders. Among those conditions is a bizzarely-worded, self-contradicting clause:

"You shall never drive alone, especially through parks, playgrounds, school zones, or other areas where children are commonly known to be." (emphasis added).

What in the world is this supposed to mean? Can I drive alone or not? My probation officer has stopped answering my calls (I was calling twice a day to verify that I was within compliance on everything I was doing), and I have a family member who wants to buy me a car, but I don't want them to waste money if I can't drive the thing without a co-pilot (does God count?) . I've got twelve years of probation, so I want to get this right. Prison's an experience I don't want to go through again!




This is not part of my question, but I wanted somebody else to see this: among the other special conditions, I cannot date anyone who has children, and if I get married and my wife gets pregnant, I have to petition the court for permission to see my own kids (and cannot live with them). Then there's this marvelous clause:

"Except as authorized by the Court or the Probation Officer, you shall not create, possess, access or control any type of photograph, video, rendering, or digital imagery of any minor."

...So, I can't go to any news sites, because they sometimes have stories about children with a photograph; and I can't go to YouTube, because in the "suggested" section there might be a thumbnail of a child prodigy; and I can't watch Pixar's "Up", because it contains a digital rendering of a minor; and I can't draw a stick figure of a child. Does this seem arcane to anyone else?

 

[Ohiogal]

Please, let's not turn this thread into a flame war about how much we hate sex offenders and child molesters; I hate them too, we all hate them, and they should be slapped on the wrist/jailed briefly/thrown in prison for years/thrown in prison for life/tortured/killed/sent immediately to hell/whatever. That's not the mission of this thread, so play nice and act like adults.

I am on Georgia probation (though serving it in another state through interstate compact) for some mind-numbingly stupid, inappropriate stuff I did when I was 20; I was just recently released from incarceration (I'm now 29). That's not really relevant either, but I know somebody's going to ask, and that's all I feel like is any of your business (enterprising people may research to find out more, but they're the nosy type that I'm not talking to with this post, anyway).

In any case, the Georgia probation has a long list of "special conditions" for sex offenders. Among those conditions is a bizzarely-worded, self-contradicting clause:

"You shall never drive alone, especially through parks, playgrounds, school zones, or other areas where children are commonly known to be." (emphasis added).

What in the world is this supposed to mean? Can I drive alone or not? My probation officer has stopped answering my calls (I was calling twice a day to verify that I was within compliance on everything I was doing), and I have a family member who wants to buy me a car, but I don't want them to waste money if I can't drive the thing without a co-pilot (does God count?) . I've got twelve years of probation, so I want to get this right. Prison's an experience I don't want to go through again!




This is not part of my question, but I wanted somebody else to see this: among the other special conditions, I cannot date anyone who has children, and if I get married and my wife gets pregnant, I have to petition the court for permission to see my own kids (and cannot live with them). Then there's this marvelous clause:

"Except as authorized by the Court or the Probation Officer, you shall not create, possess, access or control any type of photograph, video, rendering, or digital imagery of any minor."

...So, I can't go to any news sites, because they sometimes have stories about children with a photograph; and I can't go to YouTube, because in the "suggested" section there might be a thumbnail of a child prodigy; and I can't watch Pixar's "Up", because it contains a digital rendering of a minor; and I can't draw a stick figure of a child. Does this seem arcane to anyone else?

Quite frankly, speak to counsel as you might be able to appeal the whole bit about your wife getting pregnant as well as the overbroadness of never driving alone and the access of anything of a minor.

 

[gbrl]

Quite frankly, speak to counsel as you might be able to appeal the whole bit about your wife getting pregnant as well as the overbroadness of never driving alone and the access of anything of a minor.

While it's true that I could probably get a modification of sentencing/modification of conditions thing done, bear in mind that I have no money, my family has very little money, and in this economy, getting hired as a felon/sex offender just out of prison is kind of tough...

 

[Silverplum]

While it's true that I could probably get a modification of sentencing/modification of conditions thing done, bear in mind that I have no money, my family has very little money, and in this economy, getting hired as a felon/sex offender just out of prison is kind of tough...

Life's tough. You're just going to have to work more, harder, and longer to get what you want.

One idea is to contact your local Bar Association and ask if they have any referrals to some attorneys who might work with you on payments, or attorneys who like doing pro bono work in your category. It can't hurt to ask.

 

[Ohiogal]

While it's true that I could probably get a modification of sentencing/modification of conditions thing done, bear in mind that I have no money, my family has very little money, and in this economy, getting hired as a felon/sex offender just out of prison is kind of tough...

And? What do you want us to do about that? Your OPTION is to either find an attorney who may be able to appeal this, OR don't. Your choice. Not up to us to make it happen for you.

 

[Just Blue]

Please, let's not turn this thread into a flame war about how much we hate sex offenders and child molesters; I hate them too, we all hate them, and they should be slapped on the wrist/jailed briefly/thrown in prison for years/thrown in prison for life/tortured/killed/sent immediately to hell/whatever. That's not the mission of this thread, so play nice and act like adults.

I am on Georgia probation (though serving it in another state through interstate compact) for some mind-numbingly stupid, inappropriate stuff I did when I was 20; I was just recently released from incarceration (I'm now 29). That's not really relevant either, but I know somebody's going to ask, and that's all I feel like is any of your business (enterprising people may research to find out more, but they're the nosy type that I'm not talking to with this post, anyway).
In any case, the Georgia probation has a long list of "special conditions" for sex offenders. Among those conditions is a bizzarely-worded, self-contradicting clause:

"You shall never drive alone, especially through parks, playgrounds, school zones, or other areas where children are commonly known to be." (emphasis added).

What in the world is this supposed to mean? Can I drive alone or not? My probation officer has stopped answering my calls (I was calling twice a day to verify that I was within compliance on everything I was doing), and I have a family member who wants to buy me a car, but I don't want them to waste money if I can't drive the thing without a co-pilot (does God count?) . I've got twelve years of probation, so I want to get this right. Prison's an experience I don't want to go through again!




This is not part of my question, but I wanted somebody else to see this: among the other special conditions, I cannot date anyone who has children, and if I get married and my wife gets pregnant, I have to petition the court for permission to see my own kids (and cannot live with them). Then there's this marvelous clause:

"Except as authorized by the Court or the Probation Officer, you shall not create, possess, access or control any type of photograph, video, rendering, or digital imagery of any minor."

...So, I can't go to any news sites, because they sometimes have stories about children with a photograph; and I can't go to YouTube, because in the "suggested" section there might be a thumbnail of a child prodigy; and I can't watch Pixar's "Up", because it contains a digital rendering of a minor; and I can't draw a stick figure of a child. Does this seem arcane to anyone else?

Apparently you want the Volunteers of this forum to "guess" if your Probation is "fair" without knowing the conviction. The Magic 8-Ball is broke and apparently so is your ability to PAY an attorney. So how about you provide the conviction and help us to help you.

 

[justalayman]

"You shall never drive alone, especially through parks, playgrounds, school zones, or other areas where children are commonly known to be." (emphasis added).

What in the world is this supposed to mean? Can I drive alone or not? My probation officer has stopped answering my calls (I was calling twice a day to verify that I was within compliance on everything I was doing), and I have a family member who wants to buy me a car, but I don't want them to waste money if I can't drive the thing without a co-pilot (does God count?) . I've got twelve years of probation, so I want to get this right. Prison's an experience I don't want to go through again!

actually that is quite simple. It's grammar 101. You can remove the phrase between the commas and not alter the statement. The phrase within the commas is simply to make special note of the items mentioned.

so, we have this:

You shall never drive alone in areas where children are commonly known to be. Of special note are parks, playgrounds, and school zones.

That means, if you are in a park, playground or school zone, there is absolutely no way to explain you did not understand the restriction. Anything else might be defended as you did not understand that type of area to be included in the restriction. The court will determine if you should have reasonably understood the statement would be applicable to whatever type of area it is.

This is not part of my question, but I wanted somebody else to see this: among the other special conditions, I cannot date anyone who has children, and if I get married and my wife gets pregnant, I have to petition the court for permission to see my own kids (and cannot live with them). Then there's this marvelous clause:

"Except as authorized by the Court or the Probation Officer, you shall not create, possess, access or control any type of photograph, video, rendering, or digital imagery of any minor."

...So, I can't go to any news sites, because they sometimes have stories about children with a photograph; and I can't go to YouTube, because in the "suggested" section there might be a thumbnail of a child prodigy; and I can't watch Pixar's "Up", because it contains a digital rendering of a minor; and I can't draw a stick figure of a child. Does this seem arcane to anyone else?

Such a restriction would presumably be as the result of doing something really really bad. Since there is the statement: except as authorized by the court; I suggest you make a list of normally visited sites and file a request with the court for approval (or denial). I suspect if you list NBC News.com, abcnews.com, or other mainstream new sources, you are likely to be approved. If you list Youtube, I would put money on being denied. There is a lot of videos on yourtube that you would be restricted from watching so it is likely they would just say no.

as to you drawing a stick figure of a child; why would you think that so odd. Apparently you do not understand the intent of the restrictions. Maybe you should schedule a little time with a psychologist or psychiatrist to discuss the reason behind the restrictions. It might actually help you to understand it all.

 

[Mass_Shyster]

You shall never drive alone in areas where children are commonly known to be. Of special note are parks, playgrounds, and school zones.

I took it to mean:

1. You shall never drive alone,
2. especially through:
   • parks,
   • playgrounds,
   • school zones, or
   • other areas where children are commonly known to be.

But I see how it can be interpreted either way.

In any event, under my interpretation, I believe it means OP may never drive alone, and may be punished for doing so. I also took it to mean OP may be punished more severely for driving along through parks, playgrounds, school zones, or other areas where children are commonly known to be.

 

[HighwayMan]

"You shall never drive alone, especially through parks, playgrounds, school zones, or other areas where children are commonly known to be." (emphasis added).

What in the world is this supposed to mean? Can I drive alone or not?

Seems pretty clear to me - you cannot drive alone.

 

[justalayman]

Quite frankly, speak to counsel as you might be able to appeal the whole bit about your wife getting pregnant as well as the overbroadness of never driving alone and the access of anything of a minor.

I'm not so sure I agree. Without knowing the violation, the restrictions might be valid. I have seen other restrictions, except for the issue with the wife, in my state. One guy was totally restricted from any access to the internet. If the crime involved a relative, especially if it was his own child, I could see the restriction from his own child as appropriate.


and it's not that he can't drive alone. It is that he can't drive alone in areas children are known to frequent. I suspect OP better find a friend to be with him just about all of the time.

Given the fact he is on probation transfer, I have even less of a problem with the restrictions. The resident state could have simply said no. Since they are not the state involved in the original issue, I suspect they are simply acting in the sense of better to be too tough than to get our kids molested by not being restricted enough.

I suspect OP did something really really bad and is simply being put on a very short leash.

 

[dave33]

Please, let's not turn this thread into a flame war about how much we hate sex offenders and child molesters; I hate them too, we all hate them, and they should be slapped on the wrist/jailed briefly/thrown in prison for years/thrown in prison for life/tortured/killed/sent immediately to hell/whatever. That's not the mission of this thread, so play nice and act like adults.

I am on Georgia probation (though serving it in another state through interstate compact) for some mind-numbingly stupid, inappropriate stuff I did when I was 20; I was just recently released from incarceration (I'm now 29). That's not really relevant either, but I know somebody's going to ask, and that's all I feel like is any of your business (enterprising people may research to find out more, but they're the nosy type that I'm not talking to with this post, anyway).

In any case, the Georgia probation has a long list of "special conditions" for sex offenders. Among those conditions is a bizzarely-worded, self-contradicting clause:

"You shall never drive alone, especially through parks, playgrounds, school zones, or other areas where children are commonly known to be." (emphasis added).

What in the world is this supposed to mean? Can I drive alone or not? My probation officer has stopped answering my calls (I was calling twice a day to verify that I was within compliance on everything I was doing), and I have a family member who wants to buy me a car, but I don't want them to waste money if I can't drive the thing without a co-pilot (does God count?) . I've got twelve years of probation, so I want to get this right. Prison's an experience I don't want to go through again!




This is not part of my question, but I wanted somebody else to see this: among the other special conditions, I cannot date anyone who has children, and if I get married and my wife gets pregnant, I have to petition the court for permission to see my own kids (and cannot live with them). Then there's this marvelous clause:

"Except as authorized by the Court or the Probation Officer, you shall not create, possess, access or control any type of photograph, video, rendering, or digital imagery of any minor."

...So, I can't go to any news sites, because they sometimes have stories about children with a photograph; and I can't go to YouTube, because in the "suggested" section there might be a thumbnail of a child prodigy; and I can't watch Pixar's "Up", because it contains a digital rendering of a minor; and I can't draw a stick figure of a child. Does this seem arcane to anyone else?

I think it is obvious. The law was purposely written this way to allow the police to arrest you whenever they want. It is almost impossible to adhere to this law. You basically have no rights and because of what you are convicted of, nobody cares.

 

[Just Blue]

It really is just a guessing game without the OP sharing his/her conviction and TOP.

 

[Ohiogal]

I took it to mean:

1. You shall never drive alone,
2. especially through:
   • parks,
   • playgrounds,
   • school zones, or
   • other areas where children are commonly known to be.

But I see how it can be interpreted either way.

In any event, under my interpretation, I believe it means OP may never drive alone, and may be punished for doing so. I also took it to mean OP may be punished more severely for driving along through parks, playgrounds, school zones, or other areas where children are commonly known to be.

Based on the grammar that is exactly what it means. Court orders are to applied based on every word within them. Not by adding words not there. That old parol evidence rule comes back to bite. Which means YOU are correct.

 

[Ohiogal]

I'm not so sure I agree. Without knowing the violation, the restrictions might be valid. I have seen other restrictions, except for the issue with the wife, in my state. One guy was totally restricted from any access to the internet. If the crime involved a relative, especially if it was his own child, I could see the restriction from his own child as appropriate.

I have seen similar restrictions over turned when applied to family. And if the crime was against a relative, then he should be restricted from being around that relative.

and it's not that he can't drive alone. It is that he can't drive alone in areas children are known to frequent. I suspect OP better find a friend to be with him just about all of the time.

Actually it is. Court orders are applied as they are written. Your interpretation added complete phrases to get to your opinion. Based STRICTLY on the wording of the order, he can't drive alone.

Given the fact he is on probation transfer, I have even less of a problem with the restrictions. The resident state could have simply said no. Since they are not the state involved in the original issue, I suspect they are simply acting in the sense of better to be too tough than to get our kids molested by not being restricted enough.

However we don't know what he did which is why he needs to go see counsel and have that counsel determine whether or not he has a case for appeal.

I suspect OP did something really really bad and is simply being put on a very short leash.

Again we don't know. But I know this: Many many sentencing entries have been overturned for being improperly rewritten or containing improper sentencing requirements.

 

[justalayman]

I'll take it on the chin on the driving statement. Yes, I read something not there. That is not to say I see the restriction as overly onerous though. Without knowing the crime involved and the facts surrounding the crime, it could be totally appropriate.



OP stated these rules are the standard rules of probation for a sex offender (GA) rather than some specific rules imposed on the OP. If that is true, I would accept they are overly onerous.

In any case, the Georgia probation has a long list of "special conditions" for sex offenders.

I cannot seem to find the rules of probation of Georgia. Do you have access to or a site listing them?