Getting back my security deposit - NJ

[DTober]

What is the name of your state? NJ

My 2 roommates and I moved out of our old apartment 28 days ago. We have all been trying to contact our landlord for the past 2 weeks about our security deposit, but she did not take or return our calls. We finally heard from her today, and she is stating that we will be receiving "a couple hundred dollars" out of our initial deposit of $3900.

There was a leak in our roof ~2 weeks before we moved out, and she is taking the cost of repairs out of our security deposit. She is also deducting the cost of lighting that needed replaced due to damage from the leak, claiming that because we did not notify her of it immediately it is our responsibility to pay for the repairs.

She is deducting $1000 for painting the entire apartment, as well as $300 to clean the vents and an unspecified cleaning fee (we cleaned the entire apartment but forgot to clean the refrigerator, so some fee would be expected). I understand that there should be deductions from the deposit for the cleaning fee, but it seems to me that the paint and vent cleaning should fall under normal wear and tear.

My question is: How much of this are we responsible for? It seems that she is trying to keep more than she should, but I'm not sure what our responsibility is on leaks and the subsequent damage. Also, should we sue for double the amount of the deposit after 30 days have passed? At the moment I am planning on waiting for the deposit back so that I know what charges I need to fight, but would it be worth it to go ahead and sue for double the amount due to non-payment?

Thanks for any help!

 

[HomeGuru]

What is the name of your state? NJ

My 2 roommates and I moved out of our old apartment 28 days ago. We have all been trying to contact our landlord for the past 2 weeks about our security deposit, but she did not take or return our calls. We finally heard from her today, and she is stating that we will be receiving "a couple hundred dollars" out of our initial deposit of $3900.

There was a leak in our roof ~2 weeks before we moved out, and she is taking the cost of repairs out of our security deposit. She is also deducting the cost of lighting that needed replaced due to damage from the leak, claiming that because we did not notify her of it immediately it is our responsibility to pay for the repairs.

She is deducting $1000 for painting the entire apartment, as well as $300 to clean the vents and an unspecified cleaning fee (we cleaned the entire apartment but forgot to clean the refrigerator, so some fee would be expected). I understand that there should be deductions from the deposit for the cleaning fee, but it seems to me that the paint and vent cleaning should fall under normal wear and tear.

My question is: How much of this are we responsible for? It seems that she is trying to keep more than she should, but I'm not sure what our responsibility is on leaks and the subsequent damage. Also, should we sue for double the amount of the deposit after 30 days have passed? At the moment I am planning on waiting for the deposit back so that I know what charges I need to fight, but would it be worth it to go ahead and sue for double the amount due to non-payment?

Thanks for any help!

**A: did you move out at the expiration of your lease? When did you return the keys?

 

[DTober]

Our lease expired on June 15, 2005 and we never signed a renewal. We continued to live there until December 15, 2005, paying the rent as usual, without any mention of it on either our's or the landlord's part. The landlord sent us a lease renewal in late October, and we informed her that we did not wish to spend another year there. We agreed at that time that we would be moved out by December 15th.

Would this have any impact on our claim?

On a side note, we had a very amicable relationship with our landlord until we had moved out. While living in her building, she always returned our phone calls and was very kind and friendly to us. It wasn't until we questioned the return of our deposit that any problems arose.

Edit: I forgot to mention, we left all of the keys on the kitchen counter on December 14th, the last day that we were in the building. We returned to make sure everything was cleaned and removed from the apartment so that we wouldn't run into these problems.

Also, we neglected to have her or anyone else inspect the property at that time. We were expecting a friendly departure, with only possible minor deductions from our deposit.

 

[ENASNI]

Okay Jersey,

There are some problems here.

If you did neglect to report the leak and it caused damage, the landlord does have a right to try to go after you for it.

Notice of repairs
Most leases state that the tenant is responsible for giving the landlord prompt notice of any repairs that need to be made to the property. Tenants have a legal responsibility to notify the landlord of needed repairs even if there is no written lease. There are several reasons why you should promptly report any defect, particularly such problems as water leaks. These problems can cause additional damage if they are not corrected right away. By giving notice of such problems, you can also avoid any attempt by the landlord to claim that you must pay for the additional damage. You can also avoid giving the landlord a claim against all or part of your security deposit. You should make sure that, when possible, you give notice in writing, keeping a copy for your records.

http://www.lsnjlaw.org/english/placeilive/rent/tenantsrights.cfm#leaseterm

If you had not signed a new lease and you reverted to month to month, then no you should not be charged for breaking the lease.

You did not say how long you were there, so painting can not be established as normal wear and tear, nor can we tell how much is too much as we do not know the square footage, nor do you have a receipt before you yet as proof.

I understand you thought you had an amicable relationship but sometimes when money is concerned and this is a business contract, things can get "ugly"

You did have the ways and means of insuring a better return of your $3900.00 (whoa, I sure would have, that is a lot of money!) But you did fail to do a walk thru or many other things. It’s a little late to start stamping your foot now.

But you have the right to fight it if you want, and you do not get a return in thirty days that is your best thing to start with.

http://www.lsnjlaw.org/english/placeilive/rent/tenantsrights.cfm#depback

http://www.lsnjlaw.org/english/placeilive/rent/tenantsrights.cfm

 

[DTober]

If you did neglect to report the leak and it caused damage, the landlord does have a right to try to go after you for it.

I was afraid of that.

You did not say how long you were there, so painting can not be established as normal wear and tear, nor can we tell how much is too much as we do not know the square footage...

We lived there for 18 months. It was a little over 2000 square feet, with 10 foot ceilings on the lower level (~1200 sq ft) and 8 foot ceilings upstairs (~900 sq ft).

I understand you thought you had an amicable relationship but sometimes when money is concerned and this is a business contract, things can get "ugly"

You're absolutely right. Two friends of mine also rented another apartment in the same building, and received their entire security deposit back with interest. I was foolish enough to believe we would receive the same response.

Thanks for the links, I had actually already printed and read most of that website, which is where I got the idea of filing a suit after 30 days. Since it's pretty much guaranteed that the landlord will not have paid us within that time period, would it be advantageous to file a suit for double the deposit as soon as 30 days are up? If she claims to be waiting for invoices to complete her calculations, would that 30 day limit then be extended? I noticed landlords in other threads making people wait for the same reason, but was not able to find an answer as to whether or not that extended the period in which they were required to pay. Thanks again!

 

[ENASNI]

1. We lived there for 18 months. It was a little over 2000 square feet, with 10 foot ceilings on the lower level (~1200 sq ft) and 8 foot ceilings upstairs (~900 sq ft).

Best bet is call some painters in your area and see what they would quote for that size of a place. 18 months does not usually fall outside of the realm of wear and tear.


You know, the statute states 30 days for a reason, that it is the law. The landlord may have a little wriggle room for Holidays and Sundays but not for waiting for invoices.

It is in the landlords best interest to get the place fixed up quickly to be re-rented. But in this case they have to do a lot more work due to the damages.

The landlord should have the right to deduct some amounts IMO, however if she lags... her own fault.

Let us know, will ya Jersey, what happens?

 

[DTober]

You know, the statute states 30 days for a reason, that it is the law. The landlord may have a little wriggle room for Holidays and Sundays but not for waiting for invoices.

Well, 30 days from the 12/15/05 would be this Saturday - 1/14/06. Is there a specific number of days that the landlord can push past this because of Christmas and New Years? If you cut out the 2 holidays it gets pushed to Monday 1/16/06, and removing all Sundays pushes it to Saturday 1/21/06. Heck, if it's business days then she has until Monday - 1/31/06. Is there a more precise way of calculating this?

Let us know, will ya Jersey, what happens?

It looks like I'll have to consult a lawyer to find out exactly where I stand. I will definitely post what happens though, unless this doesn't get resolved for months.

 

[ENASNI]

Well, 30 days from the 12/15/05 would be this Saturday - 1/14/06. Is there a specific number of days that the landlord can push past this because of Christmas and New Years? If you cut out the 2 holidays it gets pushed to Monday 1/16/06, and removing all Sundays pushes it to Saturday 1/21/06. Heck, if it's business days then she has until Monday - 1/31/06. Is there a more precise way of calculating this?

I would say that this might be the judge's call. It would be in their best interest to do so knowing of the coming holidays. Estimates might be allowed as reciepts If they went that day and inspected the dwelling and got on the horn to get the repair people to do so, yet lagged at getting your letter and check in the mail then they might not look good in the judge's eyes.It looks like I'll have to consult a lawyer to find out exactly where I stand. I will definitely post what happens though, unless this doesn't get resolved for months.

You know I feel for both of you. The landlord deserved to have her property well cared for, and you are out a lot of money due to an irresponsible roomie. (if that is indeed the true story)

If I was the judge (and God forbid I am in my next life) I would be weighing this alot.

Consulting a lawyer familiar with this is a good idea.

 

[DTober]

Here's an interesting new wrinkle:

I spoke with one of my roommates, who reminded me that we did mention the leak to the landlord over a year ago. There had been a big storm and we noticed that our deck was flooded, and there had been a slight drip inside the building. We mentioned it to the landlord when she came in to complain about a scratch we had made in the stairwell (which has long since been repaired). There is no written record of this, and the real damage didn't become visible for over a year, but the problem had been discussed.

She was well aware of the problems with the deck (where the leak originated), as it had been flooding and the boards warping for the entire time that we lived there. In fact, she has tried to blame the leak on a "bar sink" upstairs that is nowhere near the leak downstairs. Unfortunately, again, we have no written records. Will this hold any water in court?

If my case is becoming boring, please feel free to ignore me. Thanks again, I appreciate all the help!

 

[ENASNI]

Will this hold any water in court?

If my case is becoming boring, please feel free to ignore me. Thanks again, I appreciate all the help!

That was Punny... No this is not boring, I just wish one of the East Coast professionals would come on board (pun intended) and pitch in. I am in Cali.

I have a sneaking suspicion there will be a poster that will come here that we both want to ignore. Please do if anything offensive comes this way. Okay.

You have a witness, but it is only going to be a he/said she said at this point with no written proof

 

[DTober]

I just wish one of the East Coast professionals would come on board (pun intended) and pitch in. I am in Cali.

Anyone more familiar with NJ State Law?

I have a sneaking suspicion there will be a poster that will come here that we both want to ignore. Please do if anything offensive comes this way. Okay.

Would that be Mary Contrary? I can't believe there are trolls in legal advice forums.

 

[ENASNI]

Anyone more familiar with NJ State Law?


Would that be Mary Contrary? I can't believe there are trolls in legal advice forums.

Yes that would be MC. HIMSELF. OY.( But keeps changing his name so watch out, AND... he hates me so I thought I would put you on watch.)
Trolls? You do not know the half of it.

We have some East Coasters and maybe JETX the rough but good lawyer may know more.

YAG is excellent too.(You Are Guilty)
But they get busy.

 

[DTober]

Thanks! If they don't stumble over this by the end of the week, I'll try PMing them.

 

[JETX]

My 2 roommates and I moved out of our old apartment 28 days ago. We have all been trying to contact our landlord for the past 2 weeks about our security deposit, but she did not take or return our calls. We finally heard from her today, and she is stating that we will be receiving "a couple hundred dollars" out of our initial deposit of $3900.

What she 'says' is not relevant. Wait until you actually get something in WRITING.... then proceed accordingly.

There was a leak in our roof ~2 weeks before we moved out, and she is taking the cost of repairs out of our security deposit. She is also deducting the cost of lighting that needed replaced due to damage from the leak, claiming that because we did not notify her of it immediately it is our responsibility to pay for the repairs.

So, why didn't you exercise 'due diligence' and make timely notice to her in WRITING of the damage??
Your failure to do so, would likely be found as a mitigating factor of additional damage.

She is deducting $1000 for painting the entire apartment, as well as $300 to clean the vents and an unspecified cleaning fee (we cleaned the entire apartment but forgot to clean the refrigerator, so some fee would be expected). I understand that there should be deductions from the deposit for the cleaning fee, but it seems to me that the paint and vent cleaning should fall under normal wear and tear.

The entire issue of 'what is fair?' is a VERY common issue for landlord-tenants. And the only determining factor of 'fair' is the court.

My question is: How much of this are we responsible for? It seems that she is trying to keep more than she should, but I'm not sure what our responsibility is on leaks and the subsequent damage.

You are responsible for everything she says. However, your 'responsibilty' can be altered by YOUR taking her to court and letting the court decide 'responsibility'.....

Also, should we sue for double the amount of the deposit after 30 days have passed?

That is certainly your option.... and something that only YOU can answer.

At the moment I am planning on waiting for the deposit back so that I know what charges I need to fight, but would it be worth it to go ahead and sue for double the amount due to non-payment?

See above.

Read the information at:
http://www.lsnjlaw.org/english/placeilive/rent/tenantsrights.cfm#ch3

 

[DTober]

I thought I should mention the outcome of all of this. The landlord finally sent us a check, which was probably less than we deserved, but more than we expected.

She ended up charging us for the painting (which she shouldn't have) and not charging us for the water damage (which she certainly could have).

We decided on a ruling of "close enough" and let it go. Thanks for the advice anyway, this was my first experience with such a stingy landlord!