Grandparents in WI

[Mamax2]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? WI

Ex is in jail - had been for 3 yrs - will be for at least another 5 months. I petitioned for court to change ruling to sole legal custody for now 9 yr old son to keep things stable when ex gets out and have control over some other issues (money issues and id theft were dad's problems and the kid doesn't need dad doing that to him too) and to also help develop a plan for reunification after release (so we can take this slow and at son's pace and dad doesn't just bounce back into son's life like nothing happened after being gone over 3 yrs). Grandparents showed for the hearing and now we are going to mediation because they want visitation as well. Grandparents have not made any attempt at contact until I started legal proceedings to ex. Over 2 yrs ago, they ran into my father and complained to him about lack of seeing my son, asked him to have me call, and they gave me a bum phone number, yet know my phone number, where I live, where my parents live, their phone number, have Facebook'd some family members (yeah - let's not go down that road) and have yet to even say boo to me. In past, (during divorce over 6 yrs ago and again during ex's trial) grandma left horrid voicemails, has had nothing kind to say about me to anyone and blames me entirely for her son's crimes. Those concerns about what they would say to my son, and their lack of effort of trying to even contact me to see him, have been what's kept me from letting them see him during this time. Especially after giving me a bad number to call them back.

I know that once my ex is out of jail, son will see them again, but I'm trying to understand if it's better to have a visitation schedule mediated or have them go through and get shot down for visitation, knowing full well that once dad gets himself back into the world that they will see him again and still having the visitation schedule with dad.

 

[tornado88]

Stay tuned for some of the other posters. There are several on here that have a lot of experience in grandparents visitation suits. I know that the general answer is to not to agree to any visitation in mediation. Make the judge order a visitation schedule on the merits of the case. I also believe that the father being in jail may give the grandparents the edge they need to get a visitation order. Something you may have going in your favor is that the longer you drag it out the closer you get to the father's release and the less likely they would win a suit. The grandparents could then see the child/ren on dads time.

 

[LdiJ]

Stay tuned for some of the other posters. There are several on here that have a lot of experience in grandparents visitation suits. I know that the general answer is to not to agree to any visitation in mediation. Make the judge order a visitation schedule on the merits of the case. I also believe that the father being in jail may give the grandparents the edge they need to get a visitation order. Something you may have going in your favor is that the longer you drag it out the closer you get to the father's release and the less likely they would win a suit. The grandparents could then see the child/ren on dads time.

This answer is essentially correct. You absolutely should NOT mediate anything with the grandparents. If the grandparents have not specifically petitioned for grandparent visitation rights then the judge shouldn't even be entertaining that at this point.

In fact, they should not have been able to simply "show" at your hearing for sole custody and be heard at all without them having specifically petitioned for gpv.

The gps should be required to specifically petition for visitation rights and then the judge should make the decision based on the merits of the case. Based on the fact that they have not tried to see the child in almost 3 years, and based on the fact that dad is going to be out of prison soon, a judge should NOT give them separate visitation rights.

 

[janM]

In fact, they should not have been able to simply "show" at your hearing for sole custody and be heard at all without them having specifically petitioned for gpv.

They should have been ushered out of the courtroom, let alone be allowed to speak. Sounds like another post on the board. What are these judges thinking?? Do they need to go back to law school?

They are not parties to the case and have no inherent rights. I would go to the meditation and state that there is no reason for it, because dad will be available soon for visits and they can see the child then. You don't want anything on paper that concerns the GP unless a judge orders it - and they need to follow court rules to even get it before a judge, like LD said.

 

[Mamax2]

That was my general thought - make it go as long as possible to get close to dad's date and then show that 1) they have had no want to be a part of my son's life until I wanted to change things and 2) why in god's green earth would the judge have let them do that?? Even she commented on the mediation form there was nothing to designate anything about grandparents and wondered how they would do that and 3) from what I have read, the burden of proof will be on THEM to show why now, after 3 years, they want to be a part of his life. They can't argue that lack of visitation harmed him because he's a wonderful and caring child - they did nothing for that time (not even a birthday card or letter). Other thing that I failed to mention, was grandma was sending cards (for dad) to another child he has. Dad hasn't even tried to contact his son during this time, yet does with other child.

I'm not trying to be control freak, I'm trying to understand what rights I have, what rights they MAY have, and where the lines are to be drawn. I figure if they have chosen to have limited contact with one grandchild, by lack of doing that with the other grandchild, they have made that decision as well.

Funny part is, during this whole time, son hasn't asked and doesn't really want to see them, but I think dad being back in the picture may change that too. And for the record, son and his sibling see each other during this time (other child's mother and I have put aside our issues of the past and have actually become friends through all of this). We decided right away the kids suffered enough in dad's dumb decisions and they shouldn't have to lose a sibling and a father for a long period of time.

 

[LdiJ]

That was my general thought - make it go as long as possible to get close to dad's date and then show that 1) they have had no want to be a part of my son's life until I wanted to change things and 2) why in god's green earth would the judge have let them do that?? Even she commented on the mediation form there was nothing to designate anything about grandparents and wondered how they would do that and 3) from what I have read, the burden of proof will be on THEM to show why now, after 3 years, they want to be a part of his life. They can't argue that lack of visitation harmed him because he's a wonderful and caring child - they did nothing for that time (not even a birthday card or letter). Other thing that I failed to mention, was grandma was sending cards (for dad) to another child he has. Dad hasn't even tried to contact his son during this time, yet does with other child.

I'm not trying to be control freak, I'm trying to understand what rights I have, what rights they MAY have, and where the lines are to be drawn. I figure if they have chosen to have limited contact with one grandchild, by lack of doing that with the other grandchild, they have made that decision as well.

Funny part is, during this whole time, son hasn't asked and doesn't really want to see them, but I think dad being back in the picture may change that too. And for the record, son and his sibling see each other during this time (other child's mother and I have put aside our issues of the past and have actually become friends through all of this). We decided right away the kids suffered enough in dad's dumb decisions and they shouldn't have to lose a sibling and a father for a long period of time.

The grandparents have no inherent rights at all. They only have standing to sue for visitation rights (and standing does not guarantee a win) because dad is in prison and therefore cannot facilitate visitation between them and the child.

Therefore again, you should NOT mediate with the grandparents at all.

 

[Mamax2]

The family court commissioner (judge) has ordered us to mediation because they asked her for it at my motion hearing for change of custody. I'm peeved that they did that and that now I have this to deal with on top of other legal crap going on. I'm feeling that everywhere I am turning the legal system is crapping on me. I'm just not happy about this and feel that my rights as a parent are constantly in question and jeopardy.


Sorry about the vent. Just getting more and more stressed about this. And I have WAAAAAYY more than any one person should have (like we all don't)

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Going to mediation can be as simple as saying that you will NOT agree to the grandparents getting separate parenting time from the X. An explanation that the X will be leaving prison in X amount of time. It is intended that jail bird will then be on a graduated plan - and that you would have no problems with them visiting their son and grandchild at the same time.

In addition, you can add that they made no effort in the past THREE years.

 

[LdiJ]

Going to mediation can be as simple as saying that you will NOT agree to the grandparents getting separate parenting time from the X. An explanation that the X will be leaving prison in X amount of time. It is intended that jail bird will then be on a graduated plan - and that you would have no problems with them visiting their son and grandchild at the same time.

In addition, you can add that they made no effort in the past THREE years.

Yes...it could absolutely be done this way.

However, the OP could also absolutely refuse to attend mediation with the grandparents at all....and could NOT be dinged at all for it.

 

[Mamax2]

Well, I'm trying to contact my attorney and figure out what I can do (cause I think MAKING them go through proper process would be a good start... and give me more time to push them back). I got the mail about being scheduled to go at the end of the month. I'm just wanting to go in there and say "So - why don't you just go back to the rock you came out from for another few months and leave me alone? You have for 3 years - what's 4 more months??" But I have a feeling that would not be looked at with good eye by the court. I'm just having an evening tonight and can't have a glass of wine to unwind even (stupid pain medicine - wait - scratch that). Other grandchild's mother is willing to be a witness or write and affidavit for me in how they have treated her and her child as well (having only slightly more contact with the cards and a phone call to her asking if they could get grandkid for ex's GF to have visitation with, to name a few).

I'm just majorly frustrated about grandparents and their perceived rights. the whole thing rubs me the wrong way. I have worked my butt off providing a good home to my son (I'd say our son, but with dad being gone for a long time...), getting him counseling when he needed it at the beginning of dad being gone, making certain he sees his sibling, making certain he has other positive male role models in his life. I am a good mother (not mother of the year, but hey I'm not perfect) and I work hard and play hard with my son. I try to make alone time for just him and to play, to talk, to just sit and cuddle (yes, I know that will end soon enough). I am just feeling like they have yet again slapped my face and I do NOT deserve this kind of treatment from anyone, let alone them.

Sorry - another vent... I need to get some sleep and NOT let this take over my life right now. They don't deserve that amount of my time. I have other things in life to worry about.

Thanks all for your input. I'll update as I go.

 

[Proserpina]

Take some deep breaths.

Don't let 'em bully you.

And no matter what happens tonight, it'll all still be here in the morning - use tonight to get some rest and try to recharge a little.

 

[LdiJ]

Well, I'm trying to contact my attorney and figure out what I can do (cause I think MAKING them go through proper process would be a good start... and give me more time to push them back). I got the mail about being scheduled to go at the end of the month. I'm just wanting to go in there and say "So - why don't you just go back to the rock you came out from for another few months and leave me alone? You have for 3 years - what's 4 more months??" But I have a feeling that would not be looked at with good eye by the court. I'm just having an evening tonight and can't have a glass of wine to unwind even (stupid pain medicine - wait - scratch that). Other grandchild's mother is willing to be a witness or write and affidavit for me in how they have treated her and her child as well (having only slightly more contact with the cards and a phone call to her asking if they could get grandkid for ex's GF to have visitation with, to name a few).

I'm just majorly frustrated about grandparents and their perceived rights. the whole thing rubs me the wrong way. I have worked my butt off providing a good home to my son (I'd say our son, but with dad being gone for a long time...), getting him counseling when he needed it at the beginning of dad being gone, making certain he sees his sibling, making certain he has other positive male role models in his life. I am a good mother (not mother of the year, but hey I'm not perfect) and I work hard and play hard with my son. I try to make alone time for just him and to play, to talk, to just sit and cuddle (yes, I know that will end soon enough). I am just feeling like they have yet again slapped my face and I do NOT deserve this kind of treatment from anyone, let alone them.

Sorry - another vent... I need to get some sleep and NOT let this take over my life right now. They don't deserve that amount of my time. I have other things in life to worry about.

Thanks all for your input. I'll update as I go.

Definitely talk to your attorney. The judge really did make an illegal order if the grandparents hadn't specifically petitioned for a separate visitation order.

 

[nursekev]

Yes...it could absolutely be done this way.

However, the OP could also absolutely refuse to attend mediation with the grandparents at all....and could NOT be dinged at all for it.

So, can a judge FORCE married, fit parents to go to mediation with the grandparents over visitation, or can the parents simply refuse? Does it depend on the state? We are in Maryland.

 

[LdiJ]

So, can a judge FORCE married, fit parents to go to mediation with the grandparents over visitation, or can the parents simply refuse? Does it depend on the state? We are in Maryland.

If the grandparents file a proper petition yes, the judge can order the parents to mediation. However, the judge CANNOT order the parents to come to an agreement about anything. Therefore the parents can go to mediation and simply refuse to agree to anything at all...and SHOULD refuse to agree to anything at all.

 

[Proserpina]

If the grandparents file a proper petition yes, the judge can order the parents to mediation. However, the judge CANNOT order the parents to come to an agreement about anything. Therefore the parents can go to mediation and simply refuse to agree to anything at all...and SHOULD refuse to agree to anything at all.

Co-signed.

Specially the bolded.