Grandparents need help in MO

[hvacburke]

Yes they will be screened because the adoption must be confirmed by the court. And no it is not illegal. Good grief.

Do you have any idea of MO's criteria for adoption, because I don't think these kids would meet them.

 

[milspecgirl]

Yes, adoption can be a good thing when it is done right. I already know of a child in a similar situation and it has truly messed up her life. She has been forced, as this child will be, to be around her biological parents and siblings all her life not knowing, but when she was told as she got older, she found it unbearable to know, being raised as an only child, that she could have been with brothers and sisters instead of being an only child. She now hates her biological mother for giving her away. Knowing this, and seeing it first hand, I think this child needs a voice and I have no intention of disregarding this knowledge.

and I could show you just as many children who have the exact same experience and go back and thank their bio parent later for allowing them the chance to be adopted by someone who truely wanted them. 1 instance of a child being mad has NO impact on this case. Obviously the child of which you speak has some problems. I doubt the adoption discussion, etc was handled correctly with the child, but it MEANS NOTHING in this case. Your daughter is an adult- if she is giving the child up thinking she will always be a part of it's life and she's not- she has to deal with that. It is great that you want to help her and the children, but you cannot stop this. You can voice your opinion, but if your daughter decides she has had enough, expect to be completely cut out of her and the children's lives.

 

[CJane]

I do not want to adopt the child, but I did tell her that if she could not take care of the child or children, that my door is open to them, that I would take care of them and her, if that is what she wants, until she is able to do so.

USE THE GOOGLE!

From the missouri bar associations website (NOT the honky tonk bar association, OG)

http://www.mobar.org/db141b59-2fc2-4b6e-8412-7003fd0a0bbc.aspx#homestudy

THE HOME STUDY

Except in stepparent adoptions, where all the parties consent, all prospective adoptive parents wishing to adopt must participate in a full investigation, which includes an assessment. The Division of Family Services, a juvenile court officer, a licensed child placing agency or a licensed social worker may complete the assessment. This full investigation is required to contain information determining whether the child is suitable for adoption by the parents and whether the parents are suitable for the child. This assessment and the investigation are commonly called the home study.

Usually the assessment will last six to eight weeks. This time is spent gathering information such as reference letters, record checks and medical information. Interviews of the prospective parent(s) are conducted and a home visit with all the family members is completed. As adoption effects every member of the adoptive family, the assessment process includes all family members.

Recent changes to Missouri law now require the content of the assessment to be very specific. The Division of Family Services has developed the guidelines for the assessment and requires the information similar to what is listed below.

Identifying information on each member of the household including: full names, current addresses and phone numbers, previous addresses; date and place of birth; citizenship; social security number; race and ethnic background; religion; education; place of employment; any children, including those not living in the home; physical description.

A social history on each applicant which may include: family structure, discipline methods, child rearing experience; educational and occupational history; marital history and current relationships; interests and hobbies; physical and mental health history including psychiatric treatment, if any and extent of alcohol and drug abuse, if any; religious beliefs; applicants personality, including their perceived weaknesses and strengths, emotional stability and maturity.

Parenting background of the applicant; motivation to adopt; attitudes and acceptance of adoption by other family members; location and description of family residence; child care arrangements; financial status; if the family contains school age children, reports from school personnel regarding school adjustment.

Reference letters, including but not limited to one employment related reference.

Child abuse and neglect background screening check no more than six months old.

Criminal arrest and /or conviction records may include a finger print search.

Written medical reports, no more than 12 months old on all adult members of the household.

Verification of marriages and divorces if applicable.

Written documentation of income and financial resources, including a copy of the latest Federal Income Tax 1040 form verifying adjusted gross wages.

Birth and death certificates.

Frequently, the information described above is gathered by way of an application and/or social history forms completed by the family. This information is used as a basis for discussion during the interview part of the assessment. Together, with the required documents, the information is summarized, forming the basis of the assessors impressions and recommendations.

The home study brings up several issues the adoptive family may not have yet discussed but are crucial considerations. Comittment, family support, birth ties, and self-esteem are all questions the prospective parents need to discuss. During the home study process, the person conducting the assessment is seeking information about the awareness, motivation, and philosophy of the applicants. It is important for the participants to be direct, accurate and truthful.

First and foremost, the home study is designed to assure the safety of the prospective adoptee. The assessment process of the home study also offers the opportunity for prospective parents to examine the capabilities and resources available within themselves, their family and their community to meet the needs of a child. A home study is not a search for the perfect family, or for the perfect couple. It is a process through which information is gathered and explained; where strengths are identified and possibilities and dreams explored; and where a life long process begins.

 

[hvacburke]

and I could show you just as many children who have the exact same experience and go back and thank their bio parent later for allowing them the chance to be adopted by someone who truely wanted them. 1 instance of a child being mad has NO impact on this case. Obviously the child of which you speak has some problems. I doubt the adoption discussion, etc was handled correctly with the child, but it MEANS NOTHING in this case. Your daughter is an adult- if she is giving the child up thinking she will always be a part of it's life and she's not- she has to deal with that. It is great that you want to help her and the children, but you cannot stop this. You can voice your opinion, but if your daughter decides she has had enough, expect to be completely cut out of her and the children's lives.

I think this is something worth standing up for and I am quite prepared for my daughter cutting me out of her life. I believe in standing up for what you believe in and I believe in my grandchildren and their future. I am already picking out a lawyer to try to get visitation if it comes to that.

 

[CJane]

I think this is something worth standing up for and I am quite prepared for my daughter cutting me out of her life. I believe in standing up for what you believe in and I believe in my grandchildren and their future. I am already picking out a lawyer to try to get visitation if it comes to that.

You don't have statutory standing to sue for visitation.

From the missouri revised statutes:

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C400-499/4520000402.HTM

452.402. 1. The court may grant reasonable visitation rights to the grandparents of the child and issue any necessary orders to enforce the decree. The court may grant grandparent visitation when:

(1) The parents of the child have filed for a dissolution of their marriage. A grandparent shall have the right to intervene in any dissolution action solely on the issue of visitation rights. Grandparents shall also have the right to file a motion to modify the original decree of dissolution to seek visitation rights when visitation has been denied to them; or

***** Does not apply to you *******

(2) One parent of the child is deceased and the surviving parent denies reasonable visitation to a parent of the deceased parent of the child; or

***** Does not apply to you *******

(3) The child has resided in the grandparent's home for at least six months within the twenty-four month period immediately preceding the filing of the petition; and

****** Does not apply to you *****

(4) A grandparent is unreasonably denied visitation with the child for a period exceeding ninety days. However, if the natural parents are legally married to each other and are living together with the child, a grandparent may not file for visitation pursuant to this subdivision.

***** This applies to the children they already have and the child she's pregnant with if she keeps it. *******

2. The court shall determine if the visitation by the grandparent would be in the child's best interest or if it would endanger the child's physical health or impair the child's emotional development. Visitation may only be ordered when the court finds such visitation to be in the best interests of the child. However, when the parents of the child are legally married to each other and are living together with the child, it shall be a rebuttable presumption that such parents know what is in the best interest of the child. The court may order reasonable conditions or restrictions on grandparent visitation.

****** This applies to the children they already have and the child she's pregnant with if she keeps it. ******

6. The right of a grandparent to maintain visitation rights pursuant to this section may terminate upon the adoption of the child.

***** This applies to the child if they adopt it out *****

 

[milspecgirl]

well I wish you luck, but gp visitation in mo is based on if the parents are no longer married or there is a steparent adoption- not prior relationship with the children. A parent has a basic right to determine who their children are around. So, don't expect to get too far.
legally, you have NOTHING going for you
1- it's not your child, she is free to give it up for adoption
2 - they aren't going to take the children just for a dirty house and if they do, they will give mom and dad plenty of time to get their act together before completely giving children away
3- gp visitation while the parents are married is almost IMPOSSIBLE as they have a right to control who their children see and gp have NO LEGAL rights to grandchildren
4 - if children are removed, there is only a slim chance you will get them. they normally would go to trained foster parents while you are completely investigated before even considering placing the children with you

If you want to stand for your principles, that is great- just remember the courts don't care 1 bit about your principles or what you think is right.

 

[hvacburke]

USE THE GOOGLE!

From the missouri bar associations website (NOT the honky tonk bar association, OG)

http://www.mobar.org/db141b59-2fc2-4b6e-8412-7003fd0a0bbc.aspx#homestudy

THE HOME STUDY

Except in stepparent adoptions, where all the parties consent, all prospective adoptive parents wishing to adopt must participate in a full investigation, which includes an assessment. The Division of Family Services, a juvenile court officer, a licensed child placing agency or a licensed social worker may complete the assessment. This full investigation is required to contain information determining whether the child is suitable for adoption by the parents and whether the parents are suitable for the child. This assessment and the investigation are commonly called the home study.

Usually the assessment will last six to eight weeks. This time is spent gathering information such as reference letters, record checks and medical information. Interviews of the prospective parent(s) are conducted and a home visit with all the family members is completed. As adoption effects every member of the adoptive family, the assessment process includes all family members.

Recent changes to Missouri law now require the content of the assessment to be very specific. The Division of Family Services has developed the guidelines for the assessment and requires the information similar to what is listed below.

Identifying information on each member of the household including: full names, current addresses and phone numbers, previous addresses; date and place of birth; citizenship; social security number; race and ethnic background; religion; education; place of employment; any children, including those not living in the home; physical description.

A social history on each applicant which may include: family structure, discipline methods, child rearing experience; educational and occupational history; marital history and current relationships; interests and hobbies; physical and mental health history including psychiatric treatment, if any and extent of alcohol and drug abuse, if any; religious beliefs; applicants personality, including their perceived weaknesses and strengths, emotional stability and maturity.

Parenting background of the applicant; motivation to adopt; attitudes and acceptance of adoption by other family members; location and description of family residence; child care arrangements; financial status; if the family contains school age children, reports from school personnel regarding school adjustment.

Reference letters, including but not limited to one employment related reference.

Child abuse and neglect background screening check no more than six months old.

Criminal arrest and /or conviction records may include a finger print search.

Written medical reports, no more than 12 months old on all adult members of the household.

Verification of marriages and divorces if applicable.

Written documentation of income and financial resources, including a copy of the latest Federal Income Tax 1040 form verifying adjusted gross wages.

Birth and death certificates.

Frequently, the information described above is gathered by way of an application and/or social history forms completed by the family. This information is used as a basis for discussion during the interview part of the assessment. Together, with the required documents, the information is summarized, forming the basis of the assessors impressions and recommendations.

The home study brings up several issues the adoptive family may not have yet discussed but are crucial considerations. Comittment, family support, birth ties, and self-esteem are all questions the prospective parents need to discuss. During the home study process, the person conducting the assessment is seeking information about the awareness, motivation, and philosophy of the applicants. It is important for the participants to be direct, accurate and truthful.

First and foremost, the home study is designed to assure the safety of the prospective adoptee. The assessment process of the home study also offers the opportunity for prospective parents to examine the capabilities and resources available within themselves, their family and their community to meet the needs of a child. A home study is not a search for the perfect family, or for the perfect couple. It is a process through which information is gathered and explained; where strengths are identified and possibilities and dreams explored; and where a life long process begins.

I don't believe they will meet the criteria then, for one thing they are way below the poverty level and for another, I believe my daughter will back out if she knows she will be investigated, besides that, her husbands family would not want to be investigated under any circumstances. Thank you for the info, I am going to ask the lawyer about it that is calling me today. I think I may be able to solve at least some of this by telling her what she will have to do. Then I can just go back to babysitting my adult daughter, which is not wonderful, but is a lot better than all this.

 

[milspecgirl]

You don't have statutory standing to sue for visitation.

From the missouri revised statutes:

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C400-499/4520000402.HTM

452.402. 1. The court may grant reasonable visitation rights to the grandparents of the child and issue any necessary orders to enforce the decree. The court may grant grandparent visitation when:

(1) The parents of the child have filed for a dissolution of their marriage. A grandparent shall have the right to intervene in any dissolution action solely on the issue of visitation rights. Grandparents shall also have the right to file a motion to modify the original decree of dissolution to seek visitation rights when visitation has been denied to them; or

***** Does not apply to you *******

(2) One parent of the child is deceased and the surviving parent denies reasonable visitation to a parent of the deceased parent of the child; or

***** Does not apply to you *******

(3) The child has resided in the grandparent's home for at least six months within the twenty-four month period immediately preceding the filing of the petition; and

****** Does not apply to you *****

(4) A grandparent is unreasonably denied visitation with the child for a period exceeding ninety days. However, if the natural parents are legally married to each other and are living together with the child, a grandparent may not file for visitation pursuant to this subdivision.

***** This applies to the children they already have and the child she's pregnant with if she keeps it. *******

2. The court shall determine if the visitation by the grandparent would be in the child's best interest or if it would endanger the child's physical health or impair the child's emotional development. Visitation may only be ordered when the court finds such visitation to be in the best interests of the child. However, when the parents of the child are legally married to each other and are living together with the child, it shall be a rebuttable presumption that such parents know what is in the best interest of the child. The court may order reasonable conditions or restrictions on grandparent visitation.

****** This applies to the children they already have and the child she's pregnant with if she keeps it. ******

6. The right of a grandparent to maintain visitation rights pursuant to this section may terminate upon the adoption of the child.

***** This applies to the child if they adopt it out *****

so, the only parts that pertian to your case are the one's that say you have NO standing
the parents are still married- that's it- you're out

However, if the natural parents are legally married to each other and are living together with the child, a grandparent may not file for visitation pursuant to this subdivision.[/

The right of a grandparent to maintain visitation rights pursuant to this section may terminate upon the adoption of the child.[/

 

[Just Blue]

I don't believe they will meet the criteria then, for one thing they are way below the poverty level and for another, I believe my daughter will back out if she knows she will be investigated, besides that, her husbands family would not want to be investigated under any circumstances. Thank you for the info, I am going to ask the lawyer about it that is calling me today. I think I may be able to solve at least some of this by telling her what she will have to do. Then I can just go back to babysitting my adult daughter, which is not wonderful, but is a lot better than all this.

Why don't you STOP babysitting you adult daughter and let her growup? Jeesh...You are one of the worst cases of a controlling parent I have ever seen on this forum!

 

[milspecgirl]

they aren't going to get into your daughter and her husband and that family that intently- just the potential adopting family

and if this family doesn't get the child- now she has a child she is completely unprepared to take care of! WAY TO GO!
maybe she can find a good family and at least this poor baby can get out of the messed up family

 

[hvacburke]

well I wish you luck, but gp visitation in mo is based on if the parents are no longer married or there is a steparent adoption- not prior relationship with the children. A parent has a basic right to determine who their children are around. So, don't expect to get too far.
legally, you have NOTHING going for you
1- it's not your child, she is free to give it up for adoption
2 - they aren't going to take the children just for a dirty house and if they do, they will give mom and dad plenty of time to get their act together before completely giving children away
3- gp visitation while the parents are married is almost IMPOSSIBLE as they have a right to control who their children see and gp have NO LEGAL rights to grandchildren
4 - if children are removed, there is only a slim chance you will get them. they normally would go to trained foster parents while you are completely investigated before even considering placing the children with you

If you want to stand for your principles, that is great- just remember the courts don't care 1 bit about your principles or what you think is right.

If all else fails, I can fight dirty, which I don't like to do. I have a lot of dirt on her husbands family, which would make them definately lose their home and possibly put them in jail. I don't think I would have to act on these things, but just mention them and I would have no problem seeing my grandchildren, her husband would make sure of it.

 

[CJane]

I don't believe they will meet the criteria then, for one thing they are way below the poverty level and for another, I believe my daughter will back out if she knows she will be investigated,

SHE won't be investigated.

besides that, her husbands family would not want to be investigated under any circumstances. Thank you for the info, I am going to ask the lawyer about it that is calling me today. I think I may be able to solve at least some of this by telling her what she will have to do. Then I can just go back to babysitting my adult daughter, which is not wonderful, but is a lot better than all this.

Oh good. Then the mother that you claim is neglectful and incapable of caring for the kids she already has, and who can't afford the child will perhaps keep the child so she can neglect it as well?

What is wrong with you?

 

[Just Blue]

If all else fails, I can fight dirty, which I don't like to do. I have a lot of dirt on her husbands family, which would make them definately lose their home and possibly put them in jail. I don't think I would have to act on these things, but just mention them and I would have no problem seeing my grandchildren, her husband would make sure of it.

You're an a@#$%@#! Really...I would bet a large sum of money that your daughter got pregnant and married young just to get away from you.

 

[hvacburke]

SHE won't be investigated.



Oh good. Then the mother that you claim is neglectful and incapable of caring for the kids she already has, and who can't afford the child will perhaps keep the child so she can neglect it as well?

What is wrong with you?

I keep a very close eye on what goes on with my grandchildren since noticing how they were living and I make sure that it no longer happens, to the extent of cleaning her house my self once, at her request for my help, it was so bad that she did not know how to get it cleaned back up. I am a very good parent, regardless of what you may think and this is the first time I have interfered with her business, and yes I know that technically it is her business, but at the same time, I will speak out when I think she is doing wrong. I am not controlling her, I let her know my opinion when I think she is doing something that could cause her to lose her children. Taking care and caring for my child is my job, that I took on when I had her, until the day that I die.

 

[hvacburke]

She is very young

She is very young and I have confidence that with some time and guidance, she will improve on her parenting skills, otherwise I would have given up a long time ago. I love her and will do my best to help her where I can.