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Grandparents need help setting up a visitation schedule with narcissistic father of 12yr old girl.

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Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
Maybe I should give more back story of our situation. Before we allowed him to meet our grand-daughter my wife and I met with her father to get a feel for what kind of person he is and to lay down some ground rules like the fact that she doesn't like to be touched. So, if you hug her please make it brief at least until she becomes more comfortable with you. Please refrain from swearing around her because when we met with him, he couldn't seem to complete a sentence without using the f-word. And we asked him to refrain from bad mouthing her mother or her mothers dead fiancee. So, the fact that he has told my grand-daughter, on 3 separate occasions, that her mom is a F-ing C-word doesn't sit well with me. He still swears constantly around her and when she asked him to "please don't use that language" he told her "F-you, I'm the parent, not you!" That he told her that the reason he went to jail from 2017 until last year was because my daughter had someone plant drugs in his apartment and then called the cops on him. When the court records show that he had sold meth to a under cover police officer. That he told my grand-daughter that my daughter's fiancee killing himself was the only smart thing he ever did. Keep in mind that man was in my grand-daughter life from the time she was 2 and she loved him with all of her heart. And it wasn't so much that fact that he would hug her, it was the fact that he would keep a hold of her when he could feel her trying to push away from him and he told her "I know you don't like this but I'm dad and I'm going to do it anyway!" Maybe I was raised with more respect for people that some of you but I ask you... What kind of man says that to a 12 year old girl and what is the message he is trying to send by saying and doing that? I could go on but if you don't understand why I feel he is a narcissist and I have concerns about her being alone around him then maybe I've come to the wrong place for help.
The kind of man that says that to his child (whom he is learning to be a father to) is likely the kind of man that needs some guidance on how to raise a child. That doesn't make him a narcissist. Your attitude towards the child's father is extremely thinly veiled and, I suspect, the child is feeding off your negative energy towards the man to some extent (possibly, to a great extent).

About the language he uses... He's right. He's the dad. Some families raise perfectly well adjusted children without having a single filter in place. Would you do that? Obviously not. But he IS the child's father.

I agree that he shouldn't be bad-mouthing the child's mother, but that's something that can be addressed by counseling and, if necessary, by court order.

Lastly...you're right about being in the wrong place, because the place you need to be is at your attorney's office. I don't mean that literally, rather, my point is that you have an attorney and you should listen to your attorney. Asking random internet strangers isn't going to help your situation.
 


stealth2

Under the Radar Member
Maybe I should give more back story of our situation. Before we allowed him to meet our grand-daughter my wife and I met with her father to get a feel for what kind of person he is and to lay down some ground rules like the fact that she doesn't like to be touched. So, if you hug her please make it brief at least until she becomes more comfortable with you. Please refrain from swearing around her because when we met with him, he couldn't seem to complete a sentence without using the f-word. And we asked him to refrain from bad mouthing her mother or her mothers dead fiancee. So, the fact that he has told my grand-daughter, on 3 separate occasions, that her mom is a F-ing C-word doesn't sit well with me. He still swears constantly around her and when she asked him to "please don't use that language" he told her "F-you, I'm the parent, not you!" That he told her that the reason he went to jail from 2017 until last year was because my daughter had someone plant drugs in his apartment and then called the cops on him. When the court records show that he had sold meth to a under cover police officer. That he told my grand-daughter that my daughter's fiancee killing himself was the only smart thing he ever did. Keep in mind that man was in my grand-daughter life from the time she was 2 and she loved him with all of her heart. And it wasn't so much that fact that he would hug her, it was the fact that he would keep a hold of her when he could feel her trying to push away from him and he told her "I know you don't like this but I'm dad and I'm going to do it anyway!" Maybe I was raised with more respect for people that some of you but I ask you... What kind of man says that to a 12 year old girl and what is the message he is trying to send by saying and doing that? I could go on but if you don't understand why I feel he is a narcissist and I have concerns about her being alone around him then maybe I've come to the wrong place for help.
See, here's the thing - your feelings are moot. You don't get to "feel" that he's a narcissist.

What you need to understand is that you are not this child's parent. And your darling daughter chose him as the father of her child.
 

Eekamouse

Senior Member
What do you mean, you have concerns about her being alone around him? What are you trying to imply with that statement? She isn't an infant. She's 12 years old. I don't think he's going to have problems diapering her at this stage of the game.
 

not2cleverRed

Obvious Observer
Maybe I should give more back story of our situation. Before we allowed him to meet our grand-daughter my wife and I met with her father to get a feel for what kind of person he is and to lay down some ground rules like the fact that she doesn't like to be touched. So, if you hug her please make it brief at least until she becomes more comfortable with you. Please refrain from swearing around her because when we met with him, he couldn't seem to complete a sentence without using the f-word. And we asked him to refrain from bad mouthing her mother or her mothers dead fiancee. So, the fact that he has told my grand-daughter, on 3 separate occasions, that her mom is a F-ing C-word doesn't sit well with me. He still swears constantly around her and when she asked him to "please don't use that language" he told her "F-you, I'm the parent, not you!" That he told her that the reason he went to jail from 2017 until last year was because my daughter had someone plant drugs in his apartment and then called the cops on him. When the court records show that he had sold meth to a under cover police officer. That he told my grand-daughter that my daughter's fiancee killing himself was the only smart thing he ever did. Keep in mind that man was in my grand-daughter life from the time she was 2 and she loved him with all of her heart. And it wasn't so much that fact that he would hug her, it was the fact that he would keep a hold of her when he could feel her trying to push away from him and he told her "I know you don't like this but I'm dad and I'm going to do it anyway!" Maybe I was raised with more respect for people than some of you but I ask you... What kind of man says that to a 12 year old girl and what is the message he is trying to send by saying and doing that? I could go on but if you don't understand why I feel he is a narcissist and I have concerns about her being alone around him then maybe I've come to the wrong place for help.
You should also consider therapeutic visitation.

Really. Kid and Dad need it.
 

t74

Member
Your DGD's father is trying to establish a relationship with his DD when she is at a very awkward age. 12 YO girls can be very moody in even intact families. Some cry if you look at them cross-eyed. They prefer to hide in their room and talk to friends.

You need to be working towards becoming DGD's father an ally - not necessarily a friend - for her benefit. For example, if DGD likes sports, ask Dad to attend a game with DD and Gdad. If DGD participates, ask Dad to join you at her games. Invite him for a casual dinner. Ask Dad to attend Back to School Night as a family so you can show him around her school and introduce him to DD's friends and their parents.

Most of all, be positive that the relationship will work as he will likely outlive you and she needs "family" - even a late arriving one.

As for counseling, many communities have services available based on income. Your or DD's health care clinic may have a social worker who has knowledge of what is available in your area. My clinic offers a number of free sessions for counseling, etc. You have far more resources than you may now know about.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
As for counseling, many communities have services available based on income. Your or DD's health care clinic may have a social worker who has knowledge of what is available in your area. My clinic offers a number of free sessions for counseling, etc. You have far more resources than you may now know about.
This. Our county offered counseling in several locations on a sliding scale.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
Unless you are yourself a psychologist or psychiatrist, or alternately he has already been diagnosed as such by one, labelling Dad as a narcissist can lead you into some places you very much do not want to be. Like, for example, in a courtroom on the wrong side of a lawsuit.
 
Something else - you may well be your grandchild's worst enemy here. Don't give dad a reason to dig his heels in and fight harder. Many parents find that tweens and teens are very difficult, and if he is a narcissist as you say, he may find that a relationship with his daughter does not do anything for to validate him, and he will drift away.

Agree to the visitation. Explain to granddaughter that everyone parents differently. Get the child into individual counseling AND pay for dad and child to have reunification counseling. And since this seems to be very difficult for you, you should seek some counseling too.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
if he is a narcissist as you say, he may find that a relationship with his daughter does not do anything for to validate him, and he will drift away.
Let me tell you a story. I have two children. One strongly takes after me, the other after Dad. She was "his" child. Up until she started to express her own thoughts and opinions. At which point he started cutting ties. They haven't spoken in >12 years. He had sporadic contact with my other, although I gather that's also gone by the wayside.

Point being? I never interfered with their respective relationships. I didn't like/love him anymore, but I actively facilitated my kids' relationship with him. Because he was their Dad and it was the right thing to do. As the kids got older, I started drawing back a bit, as I felt it was up to the three of them to sort it out. If I had any fault - it was pushing too hard. Other seniors here know.

Make it easier for Dad, not harder.
 

LdiJ

Senior Member
Given her family history, this kid really needs https://nacoa.org/ or some similar service.
I can certainly agree with that. As much as people want to encourage grandparents and other guardians to encourage a bond between parents and children, it is also important to recognize the impact that these situations have on children.
 

t74

Member
People do recognize it. The worst thing that could happen to the child is for the court to order her Dad receive full custody immediately. I believe many feel this is a possibility with a hostile relationship between grandparents and father.

If they have a cordial relationship with dad, he might be happy being a "fun father" with the grandparents facilitating his relationship with his DD.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
People do recognize it. The worst thing that could happen to the child is for the court to order her Dad receive full custody immediately. I believe many feel this is a possibility with a hostile relationship between grandparents and father.

If they have a cordial relationship with dad, he might be happy being a "fun father" with the grandparents facilitating his relationship with his DD.
Agreed. What is likely best for the child is remaining in a stable home (which it seems her grandparents' home is), while establishing a reasonable relationship with her father.
 

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