Granny is MY responsibilty, Isn't she?:

[Dawn808]

What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania

Long story, short: Granny has two children. Her daughter who she has no contact with for the last 2 1/2 years when she discovered the daughter had stolen a good bit of Granny's retirement fund and a son, my father, who was killed when he was just 26.

Granny's brother took Power of Attorney ( still not sure why) when everything came out about my Aunt...although his wife (P)is the one who "helps" me with Granny not him. Originally Granny wanted me to be POA, but not understanding everything myself and being unsure since all this arguing was going on with her daughter I decided it best NOT to make those kind of changes right then and there....guess her brother thought differently. BTW: we are not talking a major estate here.....her monies are only equal to about $40,000.00 now and she owns a house in inner city Philly....

OK so, Granny is in the beginning stages of Alzheimers, honestly progressing more and more however, still very much who she has always been. I take care of granny. She still lives in her own home ( kind of) although I pick her up each evening after work and bring her home with me. She spends the evening with us and I take her back in the morning when I go to work...Weekends she used to spend with me but now (P) has her sister coming in and spending weekedns with Granny and is paying her....this is ok by me for the simple fact that I could use the break on the weekends ( I also have 3 kids, a husband, 2 cats a dog and a full time job) BUT I feel she gets paid too much and don't do it in granny's home. ( my goal is to have Granny in her own home as much as possible). I'm telling you this so that you might realize that basically I am the caregiver for Granny. (P) visits once a week and writes out a few bills once a month.

On several occasions (P) has mentioned that this is all very stressful (and truly (P) is stressed out by it )and that it's time to look at nursing facilities etc....NOWAY!!! Neither Granny nor I want to go that route.......we've ALWAYS talked about it even LONG before Alzheimers interuppted our lives. We agreed that Granny WILL NOT go into a facilty for as long as I can possibly help her. My husband and kids are GREAT helps as well. (P)'s last comment was "well, when the time comes I'll make that decision". So now I am in a panic ALL the time. I've spent most of the last several days trying to learn about POA and Elder rights.....it seems to be a bunch of mumbo jumbo and ALL contradictory to each other.

I'd like some straight up advise: Do I ask (P) to resign from POA? or Do I just take Granny to a notary and do another POA? Is it even necessary, or does (P) NOT have the right ( she does have a Durable POA) to make medical decisions regarding Granny? I mean I don't even have copies of anything. I know what Granny wants, how she wants to live, where she wants to be and if I am not mistaken aren't I the one to be responsible for her anyway?? I could really use some answers....please.

Thanks, Dawn

 

[BlondiePB]

What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania

Long story, short: Granny has two children. Her daughter who she has no contact with for the last 2 1/2 years when she discovered the daughter had stolen a good bit of Granny's retirement fund and a son, my father, who was killed when he was just 26.

Granny's brother took Power of Attorney ( still not sure why) when everything came out about my Aunt...although his wife (P)is the one who "helps" me with Granny not him. Originally Granny wanted me to be POA, but not understanding everything myself and being unsure since all this arguing was going on with her daughter I decided it best NOT to make those kind of changes right then and there....guess her brother thought differently. BTW: we are not talking a major estate here.....her monies are only equal to about $40,000.00 now and she owns a house in inner city Philly....

OK so, Granny is in the beginning stages of Alzheimers, honestly progressing more and more however, still very much who she has always been. I take care of granny. She still lives in her own home ( kind of) although I pick her up each evening after work and bring her home with me. She spends the evening with us and I take her back in the morning when I go to work...Weekends she used to spend with me but now (P) has her sister coming in and spending weekedns with Granny and is paying her....this is ok by me for the simple fact that I could use the break on the weekends ( I also have 3 kids, a husband, 2 cats a dog and a full time job) BUT I feel she gets paid too much and don't do it in granny's home. ( my goal is to have Granny in her own home as much as possible). I'm telling you this so that you might realize that basically I am the caregiver for Granny. (P) visits once a week and writes out a few bills once a month.

On several occasions (P) has mentioned that this is all very stressful (and truly (P) is stressed out by it )and that it's time to look at nursing facilities etc....NOWAY!!! Neither Granny nor I want to go that route.......we've ALWAYS talked about it even LONG before Alzheimers interuppted our lives. We agreed that Granny WILL NOT go into a facilty for as long as I can possibly help her. My husband and kids are GREAT helps as well. (P)'s last comment was "well, when the time comes I'll make that decision". So now I am in a panic ALL the time. I've spent most of the last several days trying to learn about POA and Elder rights.....it seems to be a bunch of mumbo jumbo and ALL contradictory to each other.

I'd like some straight up advise: Do I ask (P) to resign from POA? or Do I just take Granny to a notary and do another POA? Is it even necessary, or does (P) NOT have the right ( she does have a Durable POA) to make medical decisions regarding Granny? I mean I don't even have copies of anything. I know what Granny wants, how she wants to live, where she wants to be and if I am not mistaken aren't I the one to be responsible for her anyway?? I could really use some answers....please.

Thanks, Dawn

Some things on your post are not clear about the POAs. There are DPOA (Durable POA for financial, estate things) and MPOA (Medical POA). Who has what? Or does the DPOA also include medical?

You stated that granny's brother has DPOA. Then you stated that his wife has DPOA. How did the wife (P) acquire POA?

It does not sound as though it is safe for granny to be alone. Is this correct?

How old is granny?

Granny cannot sign papers making you POA because she has dementia.

 

[seniorjudge]

Dawn, hire a lawyer and file for guardianship over granny.

 

[BlondiePB]

Guardianship was my first thought too, sj. When I read through the post, I wasn't sure that Dawn wants the 24 hour responsibility. And am not sure if granny is safe to be home alone, which is why I asked if it is safe. That is also very important.

 

[seniorjudge]

Guardianship was my first thought too, sj. When I read through the post, I wasn't sure that Dawn wants the 24 hour responsibility. And am not sure if granny is safe to be home alone, which is why I asked if it is safe. That is also very important.

Good points.

 

[Dawn808]

Thanks for the responses:

Pennsylvania:

Thank you Blondie and Senior. I appreciate the help. Here is what I know:

I'm not sure if the POA is Durable or not, I've never seen it ( another reason for concern or maybe not is that I am NOT clear on anything really) I'm also not sure if Medical is included or not. And I'd like to have a copy of the will. And burial information ( granny paid everything in full already....shouldn't I have that?

Granny's brother actually is POA but his wife (P) is the one who signs the bills checks, visits Granny etc....

Safe being at home alone? Truthfully, for now I believe she is.....otherwise I wouldn't leave her alone DAYS only. I do not leave her in the evening. We're taking one day at a time and it's working well. She has two homes right now that's all...lol Mine and hers. Remember I bring her home with me each evening. She is comfortable with this and so am I.

Granny is only 75. I understand that she has Alzheimers and yes we see changes constantly BUT she is still very much herself and my husband, kids and I, we feel more comfortable when she is with us.......(although we do need breaks too). (P) can be too opinionated and too eager to place Granny and I can't deal with the worry of it anymore. I know where Granny is coming from, what she likes and how she wants things. There are promises I made to granny that I fully intend to see through. I think I may have said earlier.....I have a lot on my plate and just want things to be easier for me and granny....were the ones who matter aren't we?

As far as Guardianship...Could you explain what that would do for us? As for 24 hr responsibilty.....that's pretty much where I'm at now. Not a big deal.

I've been worried for months because of certain comments and such,nothing major and I do trust (P) but I am concerned that she will feel she is responsible because of her husband being POA and be TOO eager to use a nursing facility....she has mentioned this several times already and trust me things are NOT that bad with Granny right now....Sure she's forgetful and she follows you around, you have to explain things a few times and she needs help taking a shower just so she don't fall and yes it can get frustrating but she is nowhere near in need of 24hr care by anyone other then us. I'd like to not have to worry about that in addition to everything else there is to worry about. Do you understand?

I've been tossing and turning about how to bring up these issues. I also do NOT want to cause an argument with family. But at the same time I'm afraid to wait much longer. Granny at this point is still able to discuss these issues too and knows what she wants as well. Any suggestions?

Thanks again for even just allowing me to get all this out.....for months I feel I can;t make much sense of anything;-)

Dawn

 

[seniorjudge]

Q: I'm not sure if the POA is Durable or not

A: Unless it was drawn up by one of those software programs or by an incompetent attorney, it should be durable. I've seen some really bad POAs drawn up by lawyers, especially military lawyers. But most states have laws that say if you make a half-way literate attempt at drawing up a POA, then the courts will uphold it.


Q: I've never seen it ( another reason for concern or maybe not is that I am NOT clear on anything really) I'm also not sure if Medical is included or not. And I'd like to have a copy of the will. And burial information ( granny paid everything in full already....shouldn't I have that?

A: Yes, you should see all this. Try to get it.


Q: As far as Guardianship...Could you explain what that would do for us?

A: In some states, these kinds of things may be split into two different actions: a guardianship is an action that a person files to get the care of another person; a conservatorship is an action that a person files to get the control of the other person's daily affairs. In both cases, the court will have to decide if such a deal is in the best interests of the ward (Granny). See a probate attorney in your state for more info on how this works.

 

[BlondiePB]

Dawn,
As seniorjudge indicated, guardianship and conservatorship can be/are different actions depending on the state one resides. For instance, in CA and CT it is conservator. In other states, it is guardianships. In FL, it can be one or the other or a combination of both (conservator of estate; guardian of estate; guardian of person). Conservator/guardian of the estate does take care of the daily affairs (financial and estate) and guardian/conservator of the person takes care of the "hands-on" care and things such as where the ward lives.

In order for a guardian/conservator of a person to make medical decisions for a ward, the court order must state that the guardian/conservator is also appointed as the Health Care Surrogate/Health Proxy. Most states have similar statutes regarding guardians/conservators. Read Chpt. 744 of FL's statutes at the following link (there's a very nice feature - view entire chapter and very detailed information) www.flsenate.gov/statutes

The 24 hour responsibility is more than what you are now doing for granny. Being granny's guardian will be just as if you have another child to be responsible for and legally liable for. In addition to all you are doing now, you (as guardian of her estate also), have to take care of her estate, her money, etc. You have to keep track of and have receipts for every penny of her money as well as file reports of the person and of the estate to the court that will be audited.

Like a crisis with any of your three children and husband, you have to drop what you're doing. You are on-call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and must be available where ever you are. Should you go on vacation, you need to plan ahead and if necessary make arrangements should a crisis happen to granny when you are away and still be available 24 hours. In addition, you are legally liable for things such as P's sister taking care of granny on the weekends and P's sister not being a licensed and self-insured Home Health Aide or CNA in the event something happens to granny while P's sister is grannysitting on the weekends. And, then there's the legal liability of someone transporting granny to a doctor or to the store and not having the vehicle granny is being transported in properly insured.

I'm not telling you all this to discourage you. From the little you have told about granny, granny adores you, you adore her, and you should be her guardian. Granny reminds me of one of my elder kids. You also stated that granny needs help with showering so that she does not fall. This is very concerning because granny is, indeed, a fall risk. Do you also help granny get dressed and get in her pajamas? When granny follows you, do you hear her feet shuffling on the floor behind you? What does she do for lunch when she is home alone? Does granny take care of her own medications? Does granny have any chronic health conditions in addition to her dementia (i.e. heart disease, etc.)? What does granny tell you that she does all day when she's home alone? I do know that incompetent's in her stage can be very time conscious. They will watch that clock for the time it is to do something (like the time you arrive to pick her up). There's way too much stuff to go into. I will send you a private message later if you have the pm enabled. If you do not have the PM enabled, do so and send me one.

As for your current situation, you do not have any legal authority to make decisions for granny, including health decisions and where she lives. You can only do so by being her guardian. However, you do have some legal liabilites as granny's caretaker. If granny has a will and if it is in granny's possession, take it to the courthouse, file it, and get yourself a certified copy. If you want to petition for plenary guardian (over both person and estate), see an Elder/Probate attorney that specializes in this.

 

[Dawn808]

PENNSYLVANIA:

Hi again Blondie,

I have to admit I fell a little afraid of becoming her Guardian. Are you saying that I would be liable for any bills that could come up.....

I'll try to answer as many questions as possible here:

- I am on call 24 hrs a day, everyday. Me and my family. We vacatin every year and I have always prepared ahead and made sure that we had suitable care for granny.....this year that means a little more then it has in the past but Granny has decided she wants to go with us this year anyway...so be it.....she'll go.

- Yes, I do help Granny get dressed. I try to have her do as much on her own as possible....meaning, I do not literally dress her but am there to guide her. Without my assistance she would eventually get dressed but would take very long and be very frustrated doing it.

- granny's feet do not shuffle BUT I do notice that she is afraid of falling which makes me worry that she will fall and maybe even possibly a little over protective so that she does not. I constantly remind her that her legs are strong and her body is strong, she needn't worry about falling.

- Grany's lived on the same block for 50 years. She has a few neighbors in the immediate area that she visits with on a daily basis, she has others who shovel the snow, sweep the pavement and just generally look out for her ( we're pretty lucky with all the people in Granny's life actually). For lunch I usually pack her a sandwich of lunchmeant or tuna, I'll pack anything she don;t have to cook, I'd rather she didn;t cook.. Sometimes I pop in for lunch ( I only work 5 minutes from Granny) and other times she eats lunch at her friends house. She eats breakfast and dinner at my house.

- I generally take care of her Meds. She only takes a water pill, one for thyroid, the Aricept an aspirin and a Vitamin C. I fill a weekly regiment container and we take it each morning. She fine with her meds. She has no other health issues at all.....if it weren't for this damned Alzheimers, we'd be ok.

- During the day she watches Lifetime, and visits between two different houses in the neighborhood. She also has a guy friend (actually this was her first boyfriend and they have remained "friends" all these years) he stops over and spends a few hours each day just doing the crossword puzzle and watching tv etc.....Course Granny can;t do that puzzle like she used to but the company is good anyway. She and I also stay in touch all day over the phone and I pop in occasionaly through out the day.

Once when (P) had her off Aricept, and I didn;t know she was off it but was seeing a rapid change in her for the worse. I decided that it was time to start day care....I did, we did and it did NOT work out. The people there were far to progressed for granny and it scared her....she was frantic over being there. I soon learned that she was off the meds , put her back on them and feel confident for today that she can be alone for the day hours....of course I know that could change tomorrow.

it's really nice to talk to someone regarding all this. I suppose my best bet is like you said "hire an elder/probate attorney.

Thanks again, Dawn

 

[Dawn808]

Sorry Blondie.....assuming that a PM is similiar to an IM....I do not have that available to me.

 

[BlondiePB]

I have to admit I fell a little afraid of becoming her Guardian. Are you saying that I would be liable for any bills that could come up.....

Do not be afraid to become granny's guardian. You are not liable for her bills. You, as guardian of her estate, will be responsible for paying her bills with her money/assests. As long as you sign any contracts correctly (i.e. nursing home, assisted living facility, etc.), you will not be the guarantor.

I am on call 24 hrs a day, everyday. Me and my family. We vacatin every year and I have always prepared ahead and made sure that we had suitable care for granny.....this year that means a little more then it has in the past but Granny has decided she wants to go with us this year anyway...so be it.....she'll go.

Excellent. I hope granny has a great time with you and your family this vacation. Do rent her a regular wheelchair and not one of those motorized carts. She won't be able to understand operating the motorized ones and will be afraid of it. Having a regular wheelchair will enable you to keep granny up with you all while walking around and no worry about her falling.

granny's feet do not shuffle BUT I do notice that she is afraid of falling which makes me worry that she will fall and maybe even possibly a little over protective so that she does not. I constantly remind her that her legs are strong and her body is strong, she needn't worry about falling.

Does granny have a walker? If so, what type is it ( 3 wheeler, 4 legs with two with wheels) and does she use it in the home?

When an elder is afraid of him/herself falling, it is a big "red flag". There are a few things you can do for granny now without being her guardian. Throw rugs are the number one things that elders trip over. Remove them. Wall-to-wall carpeting is fine. If granny does not have wall-to-wall carpeting, get her shoes (light weight and no ties) and slippers that will not slide on the floors. Teach granny not to walk backwards. Teach granny to walk using "heel - toe". When she picks up her foot, have her put her heel down first, then toe. Say out loud, "heel - toe" when you are teaching this and have her say it too.

Do you have a good relationship with granny's brother? If so, ask him if he'll order some SuperPoles. You can check these out at this website www.dynamic-living.com Granny needs 3 superpoles: two for your home (one in the bathroom she uses, and one in the bedroom where she dresses) and one in her bathroom at her home. Do not get the attachments (only ceiling extension if needed), she won't remember to unlock the attachments and move the parts.

When elders do not drink enough liquids, that can also affect their balance. Elders thirst mechanisms do not work efficiently to keep themselves properly hydrated. Dehydration is one of the leading causes of hospitalization for the elderly. Why is granny taking water pills? Getting elders to properly hydrate themselves is another issue, especially when taking water pills. Since she is there with you at night, it's not a good idea for her to intake a lot of liquids in the evening. Do you know how many times she gets up in the night to use the bathroom? Do you get up and make sure that she does not fall? There are bed alarms that go off when granny gets out of bed. They are available at a different company.

Hearing also affects balance. When was the last time granny had her hearing checked? She also needs physical therapy and a couple of other things that you cannot acquire for her because you do not have the legal authorization to do so at this time. Should granny ever rise up from bed, a chair, etc. and not have any balance at all without the ability to regain balance, call 911 (sign of stoke in cerebellum).

Grany's lived on the same block for 50 years. She has a few neighbors in the immediate area that she visits with on a daily basis, she has others who shovel the snow, sweep the pavement and just generally look out for her ( we're pretty lucky with all the people in Granny's life actually). For lunch I usually pack her a sandwich of lunchmeant or tuna, I'll pack anything she don;t have to cook, I'd rather she didn;t cook.. Sometimes I pop in for lunch ( I only work 5 minutes from Granny) and other times she eats lunch at her friends house. She eats breakfast and dinner at my house.

Whew, I was worried about her making her own lunch. I figured you had the other meals taken care of at your home. Yes, granny is very blessed to have all those friends, neighbors, and you caring for her and her needs. Wow, I didn't even think about snow, but there's no need for me to do so.

During the day she watches Lifetime, and visits between two different houses in the neighborhood. She also has a guy friend (actually this was her first boyfriend and they have remained "friends" all these years) he stops over and spends a few hours each day just doing the crossword puzzle and watching tv etc.....Course Granny can;t do that puzzle like she used to but the company is good anyway. She and I also stay in touch all day over the phone and I pop in occasionaly through out the day.

She is occupied and has others around, excellent. Also having her long time friend around must be comforting. You should get them a Scrabble game (and scrabble dictionary).

Once when (P) had her off Aricept, and I didn;t know she was off it but was seeing a rapid change in her for the worse. I decided that it was time to start day care....I did, we did and it did NOT work out. The people there were far to progressed for granny and it scared her....she was frantic over being there. I soon learned that she was off the meds , put her back on them and feel confident for today that she can be alone for the day hours....of course I know that could change tomorrow.

I understand. It's too much for granny to absorb which is scary for them. With the dementia, the elders also do not want others to think that they are dumb because they do not understand and know what to do. Elders do need consistency with a routine.

it's really nice to talk to someone regarding all this. I suppose my best bet is like you said "hire an elder/probate attorney.

Thanks again, Dawn

You are very welcome. Feel free to discuss granny and her issues any time. What you are doing is fine. I wouldn't change it unless/until it's time to do so. The main thing is the falling and fear of falling. As previous stated, there are other things, but you need the legal authorization to do them. Remember, no matter what you do or even if granny has 24 hour care even private duty care, she can still fall at any time. Do hire an attorney that does guardianships and file for guardian of granny.

To enable the private messaging, go into your control panel (user CP) here on this site and activate it. Let me know if it works. I do have more info for you but as you can see, it is a lot of info. Others can learn from all this too.