jeepnsleep
Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana
I entered a forum thread yesterday and for some reason it looks like it didn't post so I am retyping/reposting again and apologize if both show up.
I was on my way to work at 1:30pm yesterday afternoon and was approaching a school zone (school sits about 300 feet off the road and is connected to the main highway I was travelling on by an entrance road) and noticed a state police car sitting there at the end of the entrance road. I was driving about 60 or so and although the posted sign says "40mph when children present" I have always taken this to mean in the mornings and afternoons when school busses are present and bringing/taking kids to/from school. I fully understand the need to slow down to 40mph when busses and kids are present but I don't see the need to go 40mph when no busses or kids are present and the school sits way off the road. After going through the zone I noticed he pulled out and caught up to me and pulled me over. He cited me going 63 in a 40 and I told him that I interpreted the "when children present" portion of the sign to mean as explained above, when busses are coming/going and children are actually visible and present near the roadway I was traveling on. He said the condition "when children present" includes the children being in the school building itself and that they don't have to be present in or near the roadway for the condition to be in effect. The sign does not state anything about certain times of the day the speed is in effect and there are no yellow blinking lights to designate when the zone is to be enforced, just the 40mph sign with the "when children present" small sign below it.
The officer stated that I mis-interpreted the sign and that the 40mph was enforceable at all times, even during weekends and holidays. Essentially he is telling me then it should be treated as a 40mph zone 24/7/365. I would be fine with that if the sign merely said "40mph" period. But by adding the "when children present" condition then I feel the 40mph limit can only be applied and enforced when certain criteria are met to satisfy the condition. However, I have looked online and can find no example of Indiana IC code that defines "when children present". Other states have clear definitions of this such as "children visible from the road" or "children at the curbside, crosswalk or within 30 feet of the roadway". I don't understand how you can add a condition to a speed zone sign, and be able to enforce it without any clear definition of the condition itself.
The infraction on the ticket is 9-21-5-6(d). This is the first ticket I've had in years. I plan on contesting the charge, and plan on gathering evidence such as photos of the school entrance road and lack of children present during the same day/time as the supposed infraction, as well as copies of the indiana IC code showing no real definition of the condition "when children present" and copies of the same code from other states showing an actual definition that isn't left open to interpretation to each individual.
It just happened yesterday and the infraction listed on the ticket isn't listed on the small list of codes/fines he gave me so I have to wait (5) business days just to call the county clerk and find out what the fine will be. I'm assuming they do this since the fine is probably based on the actual condtions of the traffic stop and not just a flat fee.
I am fine paying the fine and accepting the infraction if I clearly misunderstood the law and will obviously learn a valuable lesson from it, but I feel that the circumstances in which it happened are not 100% clear and if the rules are left open to interpretation and not clearly defined then this sort of thing will happen and I feel compelled to fight it.
I would appreciate any input anyone has on this, ways to bolster my case to the judge and any points I have missed. Thanks in advance!
I entered a forum thread yesterday and for some reason it looks like it didn't post so I am retyping/reposting again and apologize if both show up.
I was on my way to work at 1:30pm yesterday afternoon and was approaching a school zone (school sits about 300 feet off the road and is connected to the main highway I was travelling on by an entrance road) and noticed a state police car sitting there at the end of the entrance road. I was driving about 60 or so and although the posted sign says "40mph when children present" I have always taken this to mean in the mornings and afternoons when school busses are present and bringing/taking kids to/from school. I fully understand the need to slow down to 40mph when busses and kids are present but I don't see the need to go 40mph when no busses or kids are present and the school sits way off the road. After going through the zone I noticed he pulled out and caught up to me and pulled me over. He cited me going 63 in a 40 and I told him that I interpreted the "when children present" portion of the sign to mean as explained above, when busses are coming/going and children are actually visible and present near the roadway I was traveling on. He said the condition "when children present" includes the children being in the school building itself and that they don't have to be present in or near the roadway for the condition to be in effect. The sign does not state anything about certain times of the day the speed is in effect and there are no yellow blinking lights to designate when the zone is to be enforced, just the 40mph sign with the "when children present" small sign below it.
The officer stated that I mis-interpreted the sign and that the 40mph was enforceable at all times, even during weekends and holidays. Essentially he is telling me then it should be treated as a 40mph zone 24/7/365. I would be fine with that if the sign merely said "40mph" period. But by adding the "when children present" condition then I feel the 40mph limit can only be applied and enforced when certain criteria are met to satisfy the condition. However, I have looked online and can find no example of Indiana IC code that defines "when children present". Other states have clear definitions of this such as "children visible from the road" or "children at the curbside, crosswalk or within 30 feet of the roadway". I don't understand how you can add a condition to a speed zone sign, and be able to enforce it without any clear definition of the condition itself.
The infraction on the ticket is 9-21-5-6(d). This is the first ticket I've had in years. I plan on contesting the charge, and plan on gathering evidence such as photos of the school entrance road and lack of children present during the same day/time as the supposed infraction, as well as copies of the indiana IC code showing no real definition of the condition "when children present" and copies of the same code from other states showing an actual definition that isn't left open to interpretation to each individual.
It just happened yesterday and the infraction listed on the ticket isn't listed on the small list of codes/fines he gave me so I have to wait (5) business days just to call the county clerk and find out what the fine will be. I'm assuming they do this since the fine is probably based on the actual condtions of the traffic stop and not just a flat fee.
I am fine paying the fine and accepting the infraction if I clearly misunderstood the law and will obviously learn a valuable lesson from it, but I feel that the circumstances in which it happened are not 100% clear and if the rules are left open to interpretation and not clearly defined then this sort of thing will happen and I feel compelled to fight it.
I would appreciate any input anyone has on this, ways to bolster my case to the judge and any points I have missed. Thanks in advance!