Help with what seems like a Debt Collector

[Jan0004]

What is the name of your state? FLORIDA

I'll try to be concise. I recently received a phone call from person that claimed to be County Dispatch attempting to schedule an appointment to serve a civil subpoena. He did know my name, DOB and last 4 of social. The case # he gave me was NOT a legal case # format (I called my County Court Office, they have no case even for my name). The call back number, an 888 # was fake AND the caller ID local # of the person only leads to a generic voicemail that eventually says mailbox is full. This gent wanted to schedule an appointment to render the "subpoena" paperwork to me, at my home address, and get my signature. I, of course, WILL NOT sign anything.

I was able to get from him a "case #" (which I already determined was not a genuine court case #) and an 888 number where I can get more details. After several attempts, I finally reached a live rep that told me a company called "Commerce Financial Legal Systems" (let's call them CFLS) was attempting to collect a "legal debt collection" for failure to pay an old credit card debt that supposedly was over $25,000 -- and the last reported activity was May 5, 2010 (14+ years ago). He claimed that the company mailed me information last year (never received it) and that this was their final attempt to "serve" me. I told this agent that i will not sign anything from something I knew nothing about nor have any details about. He said that was my legal right but the intention of CFLS was to proceed with civil legal action if I did not. I told him they have the option to mail me all the details. he said they would not.

Okay, although I do NOT recognize the credit card, I did have some cards I unfortunately defaulted on way back when in ~2010 (during the real estate bubble crash). So, let's just say hypothetically that the card they are referring to was mine and the charge ballooned to over $25,000 in their estimation (I never defaulted on a card with a balance of over $5,000). If so:

(1) Can they really file a Civil Court Case (for judgement) for a credit card that is over 14 years old? If so, will I be informed so I can defend myself and do they really have any legal recourse on a 14+ year old debt? Do i have to be vigilant and ALWAYS check my name on the my county's Civil Court Office / Records to see if anything comes up?

(2) Can they really file a Civil Court case against me if I do NOT accept signing anything (as aforementioned). I don't want to inadvertently sign anything that I have no concrete details about and "restart" the clock, so-to-speak.

(3) Or has this all been a VERY elaborate way by a collections company to scare someone into collecting a very old debt that they bought for pennies on the dollar?

(4) The initial "County Dispatcher" said they will come to my home tomorrow. I tired calling him many times at the numbers he gave me (refer to the beginning) but there was no way to contact him. He said they will give a "courtesy call" before coming. Should I tell them to go away and I would consider any future contact harassment that causes me stress -- and I would consider any future contact into my property as trespassing? As I said, I will not sign anything... But if they want to mail me whatever they have then that will be fine.

Your comments and advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

 

[quincy]

What is the name of your state? FLORIDA

I'll try to be concise. I recently received a phone call from person that claimed to be County Dispatch attempting to schedule an appointment to serve a civil subpoena. He did know my name, DOB and last 4 of social. The case # he gave me was NOT a legal case # format (I called my County Court Office, they have no case even for my name). The call back number, an 888 # was fake AND the caller ID local # of the person only leads to a generic voicemail that eventually says mailbox is full. This gent wanted to schedule an appointment to render the "subpoena" paperwork to me, at my home address, and get my signature. I, of course, WILL NOT sign anything.

I was able to get from him a "case #" (which I already determined was not a genuine court case #) and an 888 number where I can get more details. After several attempts, I finally reached a live rep that told me a company called "Commerce Financial Legal Systems" (let's call them CFLS) was attempting to collect a "legal debt collection" for failure to pay an old credit card debt that supposedly was over $25,000 -- and the last reported activity was May 5, 2010 (14+ years ago). He claimed that the company mailed me information last year (never received it) and that this was their final attempt to "serve" me. I told this agent that i will not sign anything from something I knew nothing about nor have any details about. He said that was my legal right but the intention of CFLS was to proceed with civil legal action if I did not. I told him they have the option to mail me all the details. he said they would not.

Okay, although I do NOT recognize the credit card, I did have some cards I unfortunately defaulted on way back when in ~2010 (during the real estate bubble crash). So, let's just say hypothetically that the card they are referring to was mine and the charge ballooned to over $25,000 in their estimation (I never defaulted on a card with a balance of over $5,000). If so:

(1) Can they really file a Civil Court Case (for judgement) for a credit card that is over 14 years old? If so, will I be informed so I can defend myself and do they really have any legal recourse on a 14+ year old debt? Do i have to be vigilant and ALWAYS check my name on the my county's Civil Court Office / Records to see if anything comes up?

(2) Can they really file a Civil Court case against me if I do NOT accept signing anything (as aforementioned). I don't want to inadvertently sign anything that I have no concrete details about and "restart" the clock, so-to-speak.

(3) Or has this all been a VERY elaborate way by a collections company to scare someone into collecting a very old debt that they bought for pennies on the dollar?

(4) The initial "County Dispatcher" said they will come to my home tomorrow. I tired calling him many times at the numbers he gave me (refer to the beginning) but there was no way to contact him. He said they will give a "courtesy call" before coming. Should I tell them to go away and I would consider any future contact harassment that causes me stress -- and I would consider any future contact into my property as trespassing? As I said, I will not sign anything... But if they want to mail me whatever they have then that will be fine.

Your comments and advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

You should wait to be properly served with a summons and complaint.

The call you received could be from a debt collector trying to locate you so you can be served. Or it could be a scam.

Because of what you believe might be the age of a legitimate debt, one defense to any suit filed over this debt (or one reason to file a motion to dismiss a suit filed over this debt) could be a statute of limitations defense.

It is often best not to answer calls from unfamiliar numbers. And you should never disclose personal information to unknown callers, regardless of who they say they are.

 

[adjusterjack]

(1) Can they really file a Civil Court Case (for judgement) for a credit card that is over 14 years old?

They can file but it would be a waste of time once you raise the statute of limitations which is 5 years to file a lawsuit in Florida for breach of a written contract.

If so, will I be informed so I can defend myself

You will need to be served a summons and complaint from a real court case. Generally, a private process server is required for that kind of money.

do they really have any legal recourse on a 14+ year old debt?

No. But the statute of limitations is an affirmative defense. You have to list it in your response as one of your defenses.

Do i have to be vigilant and ALWAYS check my name on the my county's Civil Court Office / Records to see if anything comes up?

Not that tough to go online and check periodically.

Can they really file a Civil Court case against me if I do NOT accept signing anything (as aforementioned). I don't want to inadvertently sign anything that I have no concrete details about and "restart" the clock, so-to-speak.

You can be sued and served without having to sign anything. All a process server has to do is hand it to you or to some adult in the household.

(3) Or has this all been a VERY elaborate way by a collections company to scare someone into collecting a very old debt that they bought for pennies on the dollar?

Yes, that. Collection agencies are like the Spanish Inquisition. Their weapon is surprise. Surprise and fear. Their two weapons are surprise and fear and... Well, you know the rest.

(4) The initial "County Dispatcher" said they will come to my home tomorrow. I tired calling him many times at the numbers he gave me (refer to the beginning) but there was no way to contact him. He said they will give a "courtesy call" before coming. Should I tell them to go away and I would consider any future contact harassment that causes me stress -- and I would consider any future contact into my property as trespassing? As I said, I will not sign anything... But if they want to mail me whatever they have then that will be fine.

If somebody does come to your door, remind them that the Statute of Limitations is 5 years. Might as well take whatever they bring for you because they will just lie and tell the court that they handed it to you. Having the documents in hand will help you if you really are being sued.

 

[Jan0004]

You should wait to be properly served with a summons and complaint.

The call you received could be from a debt collector trying to locate you so you can be served. Or it could be a scam.

Because of what you believe might be the age of a legitimate debt, one defense to any suit filed over this debt (or one reason to file a motion to dismiss a suit filed over this debt) could be a statute of limitations defense.

It is often best not to answer calls from unfamiliar numbers. And you should never disclose personal information to unknown callers, regardless of who they say they are.

Thank you so much for your kind and informed reply. Well, dang, I already spoke to the initial caller (the so called county dispatcher) and I called the toll free number to get the aforementioned details (spoke to a live rep that did say call was being recorded). I guess it happened already so I can't undo anything... But did I make a serious mistake?!? I was just perplexed and, honestly, worried so I really wanted to get more details. I only CONFIRMED the information they already had (which was my name, social, DOB and address... which, in retrospect, was a mistake... shoot!!)

So, next time, besides citing the "stature of limitations is 5 years defense" should I just tell them to "never contact me by phone or in person (I would consider it harassment and it causes me undue stress (which it did)" and that "if you have anything to say or send me then do it by writing... i will NOT sign anything"... Should this be my reply every time from now on??? As I am sure there will be someone for the rest of my life that pays pennies on the dollar (or gets commission) in an attempt to scare people into paying it and/or restarting the clock.

Thank you.

 

[Jan0004]

They can file but it would be a waste of time once you raise the statute of limitations which is 5 years to file a lawsuit in Florida for breach of a written contract.



You will need to be served a summons and complaint from a real court case. Generally, a private process server is required for that kind of money.



No. But the statute of limitations is an affirmative defense. You have to list it in your response as one of your defenses.



Not that tough to go online and check periodically.



You can be sued and served without having to sign anything. All a process server has to do is hand it to you or to some adult in the household.



Yes, that. Collection agencies are like the Spanish Inquisition. Their weapon is surprise. Surprise and fear. Their two weapons are surprise and fear and... Well, you know the rest.



If somebody does come to your door, remind them that the Statute of Limitations is 5 years. Might as well take whatever they bring for you because they will just lie and tell the court that they handed it to you. Having the documents in hand will help you if you really are being sued.

Thank you so much for your kind and informed reply. Well, dang, I already spoke to the initial caller (the so called county dispatcher) and I called the toll free number to get the aforementioned details (spoke to a live rep that did say call was being recorded). I guess it happened already so i can't do anything about it now... But did I make a serious mistake? I was just perplexed and, honestly, worried so i really wanted to get more details.

So, next time, as you said, someone comes to my door, BESIDES citing the "stature of limitations is 5 years defense" should I just tell them to "never contact me by phone or in person again (I would consider it harassment and it causes me undue stress (which it did)" and that "if you have anything to say or send me then do it by writing... Iwill NOT sign anything"... Should this be my reply every time from now on???

As I am sure there will be someone for the rest of my life that pays pennies on the dollar (or gets commission) in an attempt to scare people into paying it and/or restarting the clock. Your Spanish Inquisition description was very apt.

 

[adjusterjack]

But did I make a serious mistake?

No.

You would have to actually make a payment in order to restart the statute of limitations.

Tolling or Suspending the Florida Statutes of Limitations Pursuant to Applicable Law – The Florida Bar

So, next time, as you said, someone comes to my door, BESIDES citing the "stature of limitations is 5 years defense" should I just tell them to "never contact me by phone or in person again (I would consider it harassment and it causes me undue stress (which it did)" and that "if you have anything to say or send me then do it by writing... Iwill NOT sign anything"... Should this be my reply every time from now on???

I rethought this. Best to say nothing because the person coming to the door is just a flunky, if anybody shows up at all, and doesn't give a crap about anything except handing you papers. If that's what happens, just take them, say nothing, shut the door, come back and tell us what you were given.

 

[Zigner]

If they are actually serving you, avoiding service is not going to help the matter and will likely cause you more problems in the long run.

 

[quincy]

Thank you so much for your kind and informed reply. Well, dang, I already spoke to the initial caller (the so called county dispatcher) and I called the toll free number to get the aforementioned details (spoke to a live rep that did say call was being recorded). I guess it happened already so I can't undo anything... But did I make a serious mistake?!? I was just perplexed and, honestly, worried so I really wanted to get more details. I only CONFIRMED the information they already had (which was my name, social, DOB and address... which, in retrospect, was a mistake... shoot!!)

So, next time, besides citing the "stature of limitations is 5 years defense" should I just tell them to "never contact me by phone or in person (I would consider it harassment and it causes me undue stress (which it did)" and that "if you have anything to say or send me then do it by writing... i will NOT sign anything"... Should this be my reply every time from now on??? As I am sure there will be someone for the rest of my life that pays pennies on the dollar (or gets commission) in an attempt to scare people into paying it and/or restarting the clock.

Thank you.

There are a lot of ways sneaky people can get you to disclose your personal identifying information - and one way they do this is to make you think they already have the information and just need you to confirm if what they have is correct. Many people will provide corrections.

This is also a way for a debt collector to confirm that you are, in fact, the person they are looking to sue.

The best thing to do next time is not answer the phone if you don’t recognize the number. If someone you actually know is trying to reach you, they will leave a voicemail. Or you can tell an unwanted caller not to call you again. Nothing more than that. You don’t owe them an explanation.

Wait for a summons and complaint to be delivered to you, take it, say nothing, and see an attorney in your area if you are puzzled by what you receive or how to proceed.

Here is a link to the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act:
https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/rules/fair-debt-collection-practices-act-text

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state? FLORIDA

I'll try to be concise. I recently received a phone call from person that claimed to be County Dispatch attempting to schedule an appointment to serve a civil subpoena. He did know my name, DOB and last 4 of social. The case # he gave me was NOT a legal case # format (I called my County Court Office, they have no case even for my name). The call back number, an 888 # was fake AND the caller ID local # of the person only leads to a generic voicemail that eventually says mailbox is full. This gent wanted to schedule an appointment to render the "subpoena" paperwork to me, at my home address, and get my signature. I, of course, WILL NOT sign anything.

I was able to get from him a "case #" (which I already determined was not a genuine court case #) and an 888 number where I can get more details. After several attempts, I finally reached a live rep that told me a company called "Commerce Financial Legal Systems" (let's call them CFLS) was attempting to collect a "legal debt collection" for failure to pay an old credit card debt that supposedly was over $25,000 -- and the last reported activity was May 5, 2010 (14+ years ago). He claimed that the company mailed me information last year (never received it) and that this was their final attempt to "serve" me. I told this agent that i will not sign anything from something I knew nothing about nor have any details about. He said that was my legal right but the intention of CFLS was to proceed with civil legal action if I did not. I told him they have the option to mail me all the details. he said they would not.

Okay, although I do NOT recognize the credit card, I did have some cards I unfortunately defaulted on way back when in ~2010 (during the real estate bubble crash). So, let's just say hypothetically that the card they are referring to was mine and the charge ballooned to over $25,000 in their estimation (I never defaulted on a card with a balance of over $5,000). If so:

(1) Can they really file a Civil Court Case (for judgement) for a credit card that is over 14 years old? If so, will I be informed so I can defend myself and do they really have any legal recourse on a 14+ year old debt? Do i have to be vigilant and ALWAYS check my name on the my county's Civil Court Office / Records to see if anything comes up?

(2) Can they really file a Civil Court case against me if I do NOT accept signing anything (as aforementioned). I don't want to inadvertently sign anything that I have no concrete details about and "restart" the clock, so-to-speak.

(3) Or has this all been a VERY elaborate way by a collections company to scare someone into collecting a very old debt that they bought for pennies on the dollar?

(4) The initial "County Dispatcher" said they will come to my home tomorrow. I tired calling him many times at the numbers he gave me (refer to the beginning) but there was no way to contact him. He said they will give a "courtesy call" before coming. Should I tell them to go away and I would consider any future contact harassment that causes me stress -- and I would consider any future contact into my property as trespassing? As I said, I will not sign anything... But if they want to mail me whatever they have then that will be fine.

Your comments and advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

This is more likely a bottom feeder debt collector who has bought the debt for pennies on the dollar, and who is trying to scare you into paying it. It is quite possible that the debt is past the statute of limitations but that won't necessarily stop them from suing. It is however a defense that you can use in court if they do.

Don't engage, don't answer their calls, but keep checking the court docket every few months to make sure that nothing has been filed. Companies like those are not above faking service in order to get default rulings.

 

[quincy]

The bottom-feeder debt collection agencies (of which there are many) often count on debtors not answering the complaints or showing up in court. The collection agencies hope that their purchase of these out-of-date debts can result in default judgments. Once there is a judgment, collection action on the amount awarded can start, whether the debt had been outside the statute of limitations period or not.

 

[Jan0004]

This is more likely a bottom feeder debt collector....
Don't engage, don't answer their calls, but keep checking the court docket every few months to make sure that nothing has been filed. Companies like those are not above faking service in order to get default rulings.

Thank you for your reply (and for everyone that replied). This is quite disconcerting. So, a debt collector of a credit card debt that has passed the statute of limitations (5 years in FL -- in my case, 14+ years) can file at a court, CLAIM I was served and judgement can be issued in their favor?!? This seems extremely unfair. Why wouldn't the system allow that (not have a high burden of proof to show a defendant was served/notified)?

Some questions:

(1) If such a thing happens to anyone (I imagine others in a similar situation as mine will be reading this thread and they can gain knowledge, in posterity, through all of your informed answers) and a judgment is made WITHOUT their knowledge, can a defendant appeal that by stating the fact they were never notified/served (blind sided)?

(2) As I said, this is very disconcerting. Is a debt collector forced to file a court claim always in MY jurisdiction (County) or can they file it anywhere? If it is the latter then how can I properly search ALL 67 counties in Florida every two months or so? If they can file in different states then this becomes even MORE worrisome! I certainly hope they HAVE TO file in my County only... My county fortunately has a user friendly website where I can search by name.

(3) Should a complaint (or whatever it may be called legally) be filed by a bottom feeder then do I really need a lawyer or would a first reply to the courts, by me, citing the statute of limitations, be enough? If a Lawyer is recommended then what kind of lawyer (specialty) should I look for and what is the best way to vet them online before deciding to hire? Also, can I have the Bottom Feeders that filed the claim be responsible for my lawyer/court expenses should they lose; and how much would this cost? I mean, I have worked hard since the real estate bubble crash of 2010 to get my financial life back together but I am not wealthy by any means -- should I lose my income I would only have a few months to regain employment.
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UPDATE: No one ever came or even called me this morning. I have logged this entire situation in detailed notes just in case they do claim they served me. Obviously, thanks to all of your informed advice, I will NOT even bother calling them (engaging). I will check my County's court online search periodically every month. I am obviously a bit frazzled (which, I imagine is exactly what these darn bottom feeders bank on). But I now wonder WHY did they even try this entire phone scheme (assuming it was a scheme)? Do they hope people call the number the so-called servicer gave me to get more details (which I did) just to try to scare someone to "negotiate" the debt or be confused/naive enough to send a payment (restarting the clock)???

Once again, thank you to you and all of you... I feel less alone knowing you are all out there. Thank you.

 

[adjusterjack]

You are overthinking this way too much.

Nobody showed up.

Don't sweat it.