Hijinx

[TIMMAAYY]

You know what's funny?

There is at least one carrier in Indiana that will allow 1099 workers to come onto an employer's group plan. There are some stipulations, but it is an option for those who meet the qualifications and would want to do this.

But I'm sure you already knew that.

 

[eerelations]

Again, you really do need to brush up on your reading skills! I never said that carriers wouldn't take independent contractors on their group plans! I didn't even think it! I wasn't talking about that at all!

I disagree with you - your inability to understand simple written English isn't funny, it's just sad.

 

[pattytx]

It doesn't matter what insurance carriers will do. The fact is that receiving benefits from the company is one of the primary factors in determining whether the worker is an independent contractor or an employee, which is what we were trying to point out to the OP of that thread, which you hijacked for your own agenda by inserting information that had nothing to do with the OP's issue for which he was seeking answers.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1779.pdf
specifically, Relationship Between the Parties. The first paragraph.

(banging head on wall here)

 

[TIMMAAYY]

Here is what was asked... "Can I put 1099 employees on my group plan? "

You said... "1099 contractors are not legally employees and therefore cannot participate in benefit plans designated for employees." , then went into some rant about whether or not they were misclassified.

Truth is, 1099 employees, with at least one carrier that I know of, Assurant, can come onto an employer's plan, providing they meet some necessary criteria, and are NOT W2 employees. Whether or not other carriers allow this, I do now know. But in talking with a couple of CPA's in the area last week about this same subject, Assurant's name came up as a carrier that will allow this... 1099 workers on their W2 employee's plan.

The questions that remain are what kind of protections they get, not being actual employees, so that would have to be worked out so there is no discrimination, etc.

 

[pattytx]

And I would not want to be this employer when the "IC" files a complaint that he has been misclassified as an IC all along.

A smart company will not do this no matter WHAT some insurance company will do. Just because something CAN be done does not mean it SHOULD be.

 

[TIMMAAYY]

Patty, maybe you should call Assurant.

As for the rest of it, keep banging your head. Maybe it will help you.

Truth is, if you are 1099'd, why would you WANT to be on an employer's plan anyway? You can do better on your own.

 

[pattytx]

And maybe YOU or Assurant should call the IRS.

I'm done with you.

 

[TIMMAAYY]

And you might want to read that paragraph yourself, which says:

"If you receive benefits, such as insurance, etc.... you MAY be an employee."

MAY be. MAY.

Not ARE an employee. MAY be an employee.

In this case, the 1099 workers can be on the W2 employee group plan, provided they meet some criteria and still remain as 1099 workers.

 

[cbg]

Okay, listen up, folks.

There is no such thing as a 1099 employee. They are either 1099 contractors, or they are W2 employees. The phrase, 1099 employee, is a contradiction in terms.

Does the law prohibit including 1099 contractors on group health plans? No, it does not, IF the plan document is written in such a way as to permit it. But unless 1099 contractors are SPECIFICALLY listed as being eligible under THAT SPECIFIC plan, then they are ineligible. No matter what some other plans may allow.

IF the plan is written in such a way as to include them, AND IF there should be a question as to a contractor's status, then ONE of the factors that will looked at by the Feds in making the determination will be whether or not they receive the same benefits as employees. While it will only be one factor, it will be a PRIMARY factor.

Now, does that answer everyone's questions?

 

[TIMMAAYY]

cbg, I just talked to Assurant TODAY about this very subject.

Bottom line, 1099 workers are allowed on a group's health plan, provided they meet some criteria. They remain as 1099 workers. At least this is the case with Assurant. Other carriers, I have no idea.

Perhaps you should call them.

According to the IRS link posted, simply receiving benefits, per se, does not make one a W2 employee. It MAY, bit it is not absolute.

If that were the case, then one could surmise that one who does NOT receive any benefits is NOT an employee, and that's not true either.

The funny thing about this whole conversation in, I've mentioned an IRS law that allows you to do better on you're own, and the peanut gallery dismisses it as some kind of "loophole" or fraud. Then, when someone else has a question about something, they refer to an IRS code that is at best ambiguous, and defend their argument with it as solid rock testimony to their statements.

It's madness.

Here is the EXACT verbage, regarding benefits, that was posted in the pdf link:


"If you receive benefits such as insurance, pensions, or paid leave, this is an indication that you MAY BE an employee. If you do NOT receive benefits, you could be either an employee or an independent contractor."

There is not absolute based on "insurance". The carrier can decide who they will allow and at least Assurant has allowed 1099 workers to join a W2 group plan, provided there is at least one W2 person on the plan, and the 1099 workers meet some other criteria.


Right from the IRS... MAY BE an employee. MAY. Where is this shown to be a primary factor? Just because most people on group plans are employees, doesn't mean that ALL people on a group plan are employees. Either way, in a year or so, it won't matter, since "group health" is going to go away, as it should.

 

[Zigner]

I think it's funny that Timmaayy's posts have now CHANGED from 1099 employee to 1099 worker!

 

[TIMMAAYY]

I think it's funny that the terms "1099" and "W2" pretty much clarify the difference in status, so the words "employee, worker, contractor, grunt, slave" are all pretty much interchangeable beyond that.

But thanks for at least spelling my screen name correctly!

 

[Zigner]

I think it's funny that the terms "1099" and "W2" pretty much clarify the difference in status, so the words "employee, worker, contractor, grunt, slave" are all pretty much interchangeable beyond that.

But thanks for at least spelling my screen name correctly!

No, they're not...well, ok, in YOUR mind they are...but not in the real world

 

[TIMMAAYY]

You're nit-picking on a term when you clearly understood the difference between 1099 and W2, a term that is relatively moot when used in conjunction with either 1099 or W2.

If THAT confused you to the point of not being able to provide a proper response, I can't help you.

 

[Zigner]

You're nit-picking on a term when you clearly understood the difference between 1099 and W2, a term that is relatively moot when used in conjunction with either 1099 or W2.

If THAT confused you to the point of not being able to provide a proper response, I can't help you.

Backpedal much?