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HOA Late Fees

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Tides82

Member
What is the name of your state?Arizona
Is it legal for an HOA to assess late fees each month for previous late fees? All dues are paid and current for last 3 years but this horrible woman, with a personal vendetta, keeps charging me $15/month and refuses to stop. If I filed a complaint with the state, would they be reversed? Is there any precedent here?
 


adjusterjack

Senior Member
It's legal.

Here's how it works.

$100 due on the 1st. You pay late. You should have paid $115. $15 carries over to next month. Next month you owe $115 on the 1st. You pay $100. The $100 is first applied to the $15 and $85 to the fee, making the fee late so you are charged another $15 plus you are short $15 on the fee. Your next payment should be $130 but you pay only $100. $30 is applied to the arrears and $70 to the fee. You are short $30 on the fee so the fee is late again and another $15 late charge is applied.

The late fees are being assessed on late payments, not late fees on top of late fees.

The state's not going to help you. At some point you are going to have to resign yourself to the fact that you owe the money and need to pay it to get up to date, or have a lien on your home if there isn't one already.
 

izzie02

Active Member
I'm not sure if that's correct adjusterjack. The late fees are the penalty fees, I think they, late fee charge, stand alone from rent. It may be different in different States. I had a situation with a landlord in Texas that was similar and late fees could not be charged for late fees for rent. That may be different on a credit card balance outstanding that late fees are just added to the balance.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
I'm not sure if that's correct adjusterjack. The late fees are the penalty fees, I think they, late fee charge, stand alone from rent. It may be different in different States. I had a situation with a landlord in Texas that was similar and late fees could not be charged for late fees for rent. That may be different on a credit card balance outstanding that late fees are just added to the balance.
This has nothing to do with rent. These are HOA late fees.
 

adjusterjack

Senior Member
I'm not sure if that's correct adjusterjack. The late fees are the penalty fees,
That's right. They are penalty fees. Penalty for not paying your HOA dues (not rent) on time. They are perfectly legal under Arizona law. Arizona law does not specify how the late fees are computed or accrue but does limit the amount collectible to one year or $1200, whichever comes first. But that limit does not include potential additional charges like collection costs and/or attorney fees. See ARS 33-1807A:

https://law.justia.com/codes/arizona/2018/title-33/section-33-1807/
If you are in a condo there is a similar statute ARS 33-1256A:

https://law.justia.com/codes/arizona/2018/title-33/section-33-1256/
How much does the horrible woman say you owe?

And how much of that accrued in the first year that you were in default?
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
izzie02 was mistakenly applying rules for rent to this matter. I'm not going to take the time to research the rules for rent to figure out if she's right or wrong because it's irrelevant.
 

adjusterjack

Senior Member
izzie02 was mistakenly applying rules for rent to this matter. I'm not going to take the time to research the rules for rent to figure out if she's right or wrong because it's irrelevant.
Neither will I because, having been a landlord in AZ, I already know that AZ doesn't have any statutory limitations on late fees on residential rentals. Whatever anybody agrees to in a lease is what they are stuck with. But that's just an FYI in case anybody is interested. No bearing on this discussion. And what happens in Texas is also irrelevant. (y)
 

Tides82

Member
It's legal.

Here's how it works.

$100 due on the 1st. You pay late. You should have paid $115. $15 carries over to next month. Next month you owe $115 on the 1st. You pay $100. The $100 is first applied to the $15 and $85 to the fee, making the fee late so you are charged another $15 plus you are short $15 on the fee. Your next payment should be $130 but you pay only $100. $30 is applied to the arrears and $70 to the fee. You are short $30 on the fee so the fee is late again and another $15 late charge is applied.

The late fees are being assessed on late payments, not late fees on top of late fees.

The state's not going to help you. At some point you are going to have to resign yourself to the fact that you owe the money and need to pay it to get up to date, or have a lien on your home if there isn't one already.
[/QUO
 

Tides82

Member
I do know the law as to how payments are to be applied and I also specify it on my checks. All payments are to go first to any principal balance due. Principal payments are not to be applied to late fees unless there's additional funds paid.
And NO, I don't have a lien for late fees. That is also not allowed. Fines yes, late fees no
 

Tides82

Member
That's right. They are penalty fees. Penalty for not paying your HOA dues (not rent) on time. They are perfectly legal under Arizona law. Arizona law does not specify how the late fees are computed or accrue but does limit the amount collectible to one year or $1200, whichever comes first. But that limit does not include potential additional charges like collection costs and/or attorney fees. See ARS 33-1807A:

https://law.justia.com/codes/arizona/2018/title-33/section-33-1807/
If you are in a condo there is a similar statute ARS 33-1256A:

https://law.justia.com/codes/arizona/2018/title-33/section-33-1256/
How much does the horrible woman say you owe?

And how much of that accrued in the first year that you were in default?
 

Tides82

Member
It increases each month by $15. First 12 months would be $180 I have read all of the ARS 33, highlighted sections as they pertain to this situation and provided her with a copy. I also provided her with documentation that showed court ruling for misapplying principal payments toward late fees. Her accounting is basic at best and does not show how they are applied only credit and debits. She is also prohibited from discussing my account and our conversations outside of the board and my husband and I, she doesn't seem to care about laws and regulations as they apply to her.
 

adjusterjack

Senior Member
I do know the law as to how payments are to be applied
What law would that be? Please cite the statute.

I also specify it on my checks. All payments are to go first to any principal balance due. Principal payments are not to be applied to late fees unless there's additional funds paid.
Your CC&Rs may not give you that option so putting it on your check is meaningless. Read your CC&Rs. That's the contract you agreed to and are bound by.

And NO, I don't have a lien for late fees.
Right, you potentially could have a lien for unpaid dues since your payments were first applied to late fees, leaving the dues in arrears.

I also provided her with documentation that showed court ruling for misapplying principal payments toward late fees.
What court ruling?

she doesn't seem to care about laws and regulations as they apply to her.
Then your choice is to sue the HOA and convince a judge that your position is correct. Or, just pay what you owe and get on with your life. Seems like you have hit a dead end with talk and if strangers on the internet agree with you it isn't going to convince horrible lady to change her ways.

Frankly, I think your quest is rather Quixotic (tilting at windmills). If you had paid your dues on time or paid the first late fee and then paid your dues on time, you wouldn't be having this problem.
 

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