How to Challenge a Citation

[Stanley C]

What is the name of your state? CA

I was citited for minor in possession of tobacco on July 4th. I know that the search was illegal as I clearly stated several times I would not concent to a search and I was not smoking at the time either. I've been to the library and read up on searches online at the ACLU and believe that the search was illegal. Now i'm just wondering how would I go about challenging this citation when I appear in court. What do I say and when essentially. Thanks.

 

[CdwJava]

Before you go for your law degree, why don't you state some other facts ... like, where you were, what you were doing, and if you had been smoking before the contact. It is impossible to say that the search was unlawful without a little more detail.

If you smelled of cigarette smoke, or the officer had seen you smoking or holding papers or a pipe of some kind only moments before, there was likely cause to search you.

Carl

 

[JETX]

Oh, and you can't do ANYTHING without your parents, so be sure to bring them 'into the loop'.

 

[Stanley C]

okay then, I was at a park around 11pm on july 4th. I was standing up in a field with a local homeless dude just talking, I was waiting for my girlfriend to get off work so we could chill afterward. Anyways a cop car pulls up along side the park and shines the spot light over to me and this other dude. SO we just stand there and wait for them to come over. I had a pack of ciggerettes in my shirt pocket which has a flap over it so you can't see inside. The cops come over and ask us what we are doing, I saw we are just standing here talking. So then the cop asks my age, I say 16. He asks for ID and I tell him I didn't have any, which I really didn't. Next he asks to search me and I say that I won't let you search me. Then he says well i'm gonna search you anyways and I don't care if you let me or not. I replied telling him I know my rights and all I will let you do is a terry search because you don't need my concent for a terry search but otherwise I am not going to let you search me. So he starts saying I don't need no damn lawyer blah blah. I can do what I want. Stuff like that. He then twists my arm behind my back while searching me. He finds the ciggs in my shirt pocket and says sit down. I say alright but could you let go of my arm and before I can finish he jerks down on my collar hard and say sit down or I will make you. I start to sit down and tell him could you let go of my arm, I can't really sit down with my arm behind my back. so he lets go and starts saying all this stuff about how he could being me down to juvi tonight for this. Thats pretty much the important part. The rest is just him bringing back to my house.

I was not smoking at the time and when the cop orginally asked to search me he made no mention of me smelling of smoke and I highly doubt I did since although I did smoke before the cop showed up, it was outdoors.

My reasoning is that since he had no probable cause, had no concent to perform a search for illegal substances(in my case tobacco since i'm a minor), and although his roughness didn't have much to do with the citation, the mannor which he conducted huimself might be a plus for my side. So now what do ya think?

 

[Stanley C]

oh and by the way,i'm more intrested in the acual precedings of the court and the process of challenging a citation, as I am aside from my tobacco habit, a law-abiding citzen and I have never been to court nor as any of my close friends.

 

[CdwJava]

It's really going to depend on what the officer says he saw. A cigarette box in your front pocket is distinctive enough to justify a search for the tobacco if you appear to be under age.

Your attorney could try and suppress the evidence (the tobacco) as a bad search if the officer admits to not seeing any cigarettes prior to the search. But, again, it doesn't take a keen eye to notice the cigarettes in your front pocket.

How this motion is made will depend on the process your county has set up to deal with tobacco cites. It could be a hearing with a juv. probation officer, it could be in juvenile court, or it could be before a referee in juv, traffic court. In one you get an attorney ... the others you don't generally get one provided for you.

Carl

 

[Stanley C]

Well, I really don't think the cop saw it since it was in the last pocket he searched. He did a pat down and reached into all my pant pockets including two cargo pockets. The shirt I wore acually has two shirt pockets, and he checked the other one before he checked the one that the pack was in. I would say he pretty much found them in the last possible place to look.

I checked out the website for the court i'm scheduled to appear in and it looks like I go there, say something along the lines of not guilty and then they schedule another court date where the citing officer shows up to testify. I guess i'll find out more when I get there but so far, from what you have heard, does it sound like I could beat the citation? Its not like the fine is too much for me to pay but I feel that the manner in which the officer conducted himself and his contempt and violation for the basic rights i'm allowed during the whole event was so absurdly wrong. Thanks for the help so far. Anymore would be greatly appreciated!

Oh and by the way Carl, I saw that you were located in NorCal. Would you happen to know anything about the procedures of the Yolo County Court system? Oh yeah and I live in Davis, I heard from someone who talked to the DA that the cops here are the ones that the other districts won't hire but thats just hearsy so I can't confirm.

And ya know the shame is that I can respect cops, they really are here to protect and serve. Just some go on power trips and give a bad name to the rest. I knew a really cool cop that was a family friend when I was living in NJ. He worked in NYC and boy, he got paid so little for the risks of working a city and the cops in my town in NJ got paid in upwards of 70,000 a year after just a ten or so years with very little serious risk of incountering violent criminals.

 

[CdwJava]

Without knowing what the officer's justification for the search was, it's impossible to say whether he had cause or not. You would have to read a copy of the report (if any is submitted with these violations in your county ... in San Diego County we didn't need a report as they were handled in juvenile traffic court).

He might claim to have seen you smoking, or putting the cigs into a pocket, or even smelled it on your breath. There are a number of reasons to justify the search ... whether any of them are valid, I can't say.

A search can be supported with any of the possible scenarios I posed above. And all because you think the officer did not see the cigs does not mean that he did not see them when you weren't paying attention.

Ultimately, its up to you to decide whether you want to fork for an attorney on the matter. However, in most counties its a small fine and a tobacco class, or a few hours of community service. And usually, if your record is clean, it tends to be deferred and go away when your commitment is complete. An attorney might cost you far more than the punishment.

 

[Stanley C]

yeah an attorney definately would cost more than a fine

thanks for all the advice so far, well, as to what he might of thought/smelt/saw all I can say is that he never mentioned anything about tobacco or anything else until he found my ciggarettes. Also the cigs. were already secured in my shirt pocket, which has a flap over it and it was a soft pack as well so it wouldn't poke out as much; I guess i'll go to court and see what happens.

 

[stealth2]

Son, even a softpack is pretty easy to spot in a shirt pocket.

 

[JETX]

Stanley, why are you still here whining and crying about your citation?? You have already gotten lots more information than your post ever warranted.... and the net is still the same.... you got a ticket, your choice is now whether to face the punishment or to try to offer a defense. If you feel the search was improper, go to court and fight it. Your continual trying to convince us of your innocence is not working.

 

[CdwJava]

Oh and by the way Carl, I saw that you were located in NorCal. Would you happen to know anything about the procedures of the Yolo County Court system? Oh yeah and I live in Davis, I heard from someone who talked to the DA that the cops here are the ones that the other districts won't hire but thats just hearsy so I can't confirm.

You heard wrong about cops in the city of Davis. They are a pretty good bunch ... at least those I know of and those I have had the pleasure of meeting. And I doubt that the person you talked with got that from the DA .. maybe someone in his office is displeased with the caliber of officers they see, but it would be foolish of any DA to actually come out and SAY that!

I don't know a lot about the local court system, though ... never experienced it.

Carl

 

[Stanley C]

I'm not pleading my case in front of you begging to be let off. If you don't want to read and help out, fine, don't than. I don't have a problem with that so don't tell me to quit whining. I'm simply providing the details of what happened.

CdwJava - Thanks a lot for the help. I was thinking the same thing when I heard it. Its probably one of those a friend of a friend stories. Thanks again for the help.