How to Retrieve Property

[axescot]

What is the name of your state? Arizona / California

My in-laws, who are overseas, have sent my wife some gifts through my brother-in-law. He is refusing to send the gifts, worth more than $1500. He is in Arizona and we are in California. What are our options to get the gifts from him? I could go there but they would make problems.

 

[Zigner]

Your in-laws will need to deal with this. Why didn't they just send the stuff to your wife directly?

 

[axescot]

Your in-laws will need to deal with this. Why didn't they just send the stuff to your wife directly?

Well, that's what I said but they wanted to save the cost. I've heard of breakups where one party gets a police escort to retrieve property. Would that not apply here?

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

No, it would not. And the court may not require the actual gifts be transferred, they may just grant the value.

Your best bet would be pressure from the original givers of the gifts applied to the AZ family members.

If they were shipped to AZ there really shouldn't have been much of a cost difference to send them to CA. Where were they shipped from?

 

[Zigner]

Well, that's what I said but they wanted to save the cost. I've heard of breakups where one party gets a police escort to retrieve property. Would that not apply here?

No - this is a purely civil matter. I'm not even sure that your spouse would have standing to take her brother to court. You in-laws may need to do that.

 

[not2cleverRed]

Well, that's what I said but they wanted to save the cost. I've heard of breakups where one party gets a police escort to retrieve property. Would that not apply here?

So, he visited them abroad and brought the items back with him, rather than them paying for international shipping.

This is your wife's family. Is the issue that your BIL doesn't want to foot the cost of shipping to your wife, or is he just being difficult?

If it's the cost of shipping that is the issue, the solution is obvious: you and your wife pay for shipping the gifts.

If your BIL is just being difficult, then I really see no easy legal option for your wife. Your in-laws are the ones to deal with the issue, not your wife. I suggest that rather than feed into his silliness, just rise above this and be non dramatic. YOU, in particular, be nothing but pleasant to all of your wife's relatives, including the problem BIL. Your wife needs to work out whatever her problem is with her brother - don't contribute to the problem. It would be worthwhile, though, the mention to her relatives that the gifts never made their way to her, that her brother was unable to send them, but that she appreciates the generous gesture. She should not lie to her relatives and say that the gifts were damaged en route, or some such thing to cover for her brother - she should leave it vague and open ended enough that her relatives ask HIM what is up - since apparently only he knows.

As an aside: do you suspect he is selling the gifts or just keeping them?

 

[LdiJ]

No, it would not. And the court may not require the actual gifts be transferred, they may just grant the value.

Your best bet would be pressure from the original givers of the gifts applied to the AZ family members.

If they were shipped to AZ there really shouldn't have been much of a cost difference to send them to CA. Where were they shipped from?

I suspect it was a case of the inlaws shipping gifts to both parties, and I was cheaper to just send one package rather than two.

 

[axescot]

So, he visited them abroad and brought the items back with him, rather than them paying for international shipping.

This is your wife's family. Is the issue that your BIL doesn't want to foot the cost of shipping to your wife, or is he just being difficult?

If it's the cost of shipping that is the issue, the solution is obvious: you and your wife pay for shipping the gifts.

If your BIL is just being difficult, then I really see no easy legal option for your wife. Your in-laws are the ones to deal with the issue, not your wife. I suggest that rather than feed into his silliness, just rise above this and be non dramatic. YOU, in particular, be nothing but pleasant to all of your wife's relatives, including the problem BIL. Your wife needs to work out whatever her problem is with her brother - don't contribute to the problem. It would be worthwhile, though, the mention to her relatives that the gifts never made their way to her, that her brother was unable to send them, but that she appreciates the generous gesture. She should not lie to her relatives and say that the gifts were damaged en route, or some such thing to cover for her brother - she should leave it vague and open ended enough that her relatives ask HIM what is up - since apparently only he knows.

As an aside: do you suspect he is selling the gifts or just keeping them?

Yes, he visited them abroad and brought the items back. To clarify he is my wife's sister's husband, so he is my wife's BIL and my BIL by marriage. My wife's parents side with her but her sister sticks up for her husband. My wife's parents pressure him but he still refuses to send the gifts. I think he is being difficult because it has been a messy relationship between my wife and him. I tell my wife not to get dramatic about it but she keeps doing it anyway. I could go there to pick them up but I can see it happening that he won't give them to me.

 

[not2cleverRed]

Yes, he visited them abroad and brought the items back. To clarify he is my wife's sister's husband, so he is my wife's BIL and my BIL by marriage. My wife's parents side with her but her sister sticks up for her husband. My wife's parents pressure him but he still refuses to send the gifts. I think he is being difficult because it has been a messy relationship between my wife and him. I tell my wife not to get dramatic about it but she keeps doing it anyway. I could go there to pick them up but I can see it happening that he won't give them to me.

Ah. So your wife's sister can't control her husband.

He should not have agreed to transport the gifts if he was not going to distribute them to the recipient(s). His agreement was with your wife's parents, not your wife, and certainly not you.

I think you and your wife should take the high road and stop raising the issue. Doing otherwise can only increase the drama, without guaranteeing that you ever get the gifts intact. So, you might as well make a show of not escalating the dispute. Being pleasant decreases stress and frown lines.

Your mother and father-in-law now know not to trust him. While in the short run, he may get to keep these gifts (which are likely things of neither interest nor importance to him), he is shooting himself in the foot.

(He sounds like a not nice person. If your wife's sister realizes that he is isolating her, and she needs help out of the situation, provide what help that you can.)

 

[axescot]

Ah. So your wife's sister can't control her husband.

He should not have agreed to transport the gifts if he was not going to distribute them to the recipient(s). His agreement was with your wife's parents, not your wife, and certainly not you.

I think you and your wife should take the high road and stop raising the issue. Doing otherwise can only increase the drama, without guaranteeing that you ever get the gifts intact. So, you might as well make a show of not escalating the dispute. Being pleasant decreases stress and frown lines.

Your mother and father-in-law now know not to trust him. While in the short run, he may get to keep these gifts (which are likely things of neither interest nor importance to him), he is shooting himself in the foot.

(He sounds like a not nice person. If your wife's sister realizes that he is isolating her, and she needs help out of the situation, provide what help that you can.)

Wouldn't this be considered theft? As you said, he shouldn't have agreed to transport the gifts. He did so just to create the drama. He never had the intention of sending them. Therefore, shouldn't the police come out because it is theft?

 

[not2cleverRed]

Wouldn't this be considered theft? As you said, he shouldn't have agreed to transport the gifts. He did so just to create the drama. He never had the intention of sending them. Therefore, shouldn't the police come out because it is theft?

Yes, but your wife's parents are the ones with standing.

 

[BuyLowSellHigh]

Did you offer to compensate them for their time and trouble? They already brought the items all the way to AZ, have you tried to pick them up yourself or sent a carrier to pick them up? You could at least transport them the rest of the way yourself.

I live a few hours drive from some family. It seems like every time we go someone wants us to deliver something to someone else or bring back something. I've seen it all from small worthless stuff to extremely large old dirty items. I try to be polite but it does result in time and expense delivering items and meeting people, etc.

 

[axescot]

Yes, but your wife's parents are the ones with standing.

There are receipts with the items with my wife's name on them. That's evidence this property belongs to her.

Did you offer to compensate them for their time and trouble? They already brought the items all the way to AZ, have you tried to pick them up yourself or sent a carrier to pick them up?

Of course, my latest offer is I will pay for a shipping label, FedEx will come pick up at his door, and provide all necessary shipping supplies.

 

[Litigator22]

Give it up!

Unless brother-in-law is willing to cooperate in arranging to have the subject goods delivered to your wife's order, there is no practical means of acquiring them.

Besides the inconvenience and expense of bringing an action in Arizona to replevy the goods and be physically present in Arizona at time of trial (if not prior) her burden of proof needed to sustain her action would seemingly be insurmountable. Minimally as follows:

First she would need to be able to accurately describe and identify and evaluate goods she has never laid eyes on.

Secondly she would need to prove that brother-in-law is in possession of goods she's never laid eyes on.

Thirdly she would need prove by clear and convincing evidence that the goods are her property by way of gift; which element of proof she could not sustain without having one of the alleged donors present in court to testify as to the donative intent!

 

[axescot]

First she would need to be able to accurately describe and identify and evaluate goods she has never laid eyes on.

She has pictures of the goods.

Secondly she would need to prove that brother-in-law is in possession of goods she's never laid eyes on.

He agreed to transport the goods. There are many messages going back and forth to corroborate that.

Thirdly she would need prove by clear and convincing evidence that the goods are her property by way of gift; which element of proof she could not sustain without having one of the alleged donors present in court to testify as to the donative intent!

There are receipts with the items in question that have my wife's name on them (her parents wrote her name instead of theirs), and we have pictures of those receipts.

The police need to retrieve the items and evidence prior taking any action so he does not dispose of them. Considering the value of the items, it is worth making the trip to AZ, knowing a fair trial with police retrieving the items is worth it to us.

Giving up because it's too much trouble is for lesser people!