How would you guys (and girls) handle this?

[424Smudge]

What is the name of your state? Az

Court order from 10/01/2003 states that dad is to have the children on ALL SCHOOL BREAKS. Mom tried to fight this over the summer stating that she did not feel it was fair that dad had all of the breaks. The judge basically told her tough poop and until mom and dad come to an agreement then the order is as stands. The previous order addresses the issue of Christmas day and states that mom has it on odd years and dad has it on even years. Mom took the kids last year and did not inform dad where she was. It is my understanding that from what the Judge said, the new order overrules the old order and dad should have the children for this winter break. Mom’s lawyer is saying that no the old order that specifically addresses Christmas is the one that is being followed. I would think that if the judge said all school breaks means ALL school breaks then that means he gets this one too. He has only seen his children for 3 weeks last summer. How do you think it is? Are we correct in going with what the judge saying and demanding this winter break?

 

[Zephyr]

what is the exact wording of the order?

 

[bononos]

What is the name of your state? Az

Court order from 10/01/2003 states that dad is to have the children on ALL SCHOOL BREAKS. Mom tried to fight this over the summer stating that she did not feel it was fair that dad had all of the breaks. The judge basically told her tough poop and until mom and dad come to an agreement then the order is as stands. The previous order addresses the issue of Christmas day and states that mom has it on odd years and dad has it on even years. Mom took the kids last year and did not inform dad where she was. It is my understanding that from what the Judge said, the new order overrules the old order and dad should have the children for this winter break. Mom’s lawyer is saying that no the old order that specifically addresses Christmas is the one that is being followed. I would think that if the judge said all school breaks means ALL school breaks then that means he gets this one too. He has only seen his children for 3 weeks last summer. How do you think it is? Are we correct in going with what the judge saying and demanding this winter break?

First, I would have filed contempt for last year.
If this is an entirely new order, not a temp. then you are correct.
I understand that Dad doesn't get much, but it must suck for mom to get absolutely no holidays.
Maybe a new order is necessary, possibly giving Dad more time in the summer, say 6 weeks, and alternating holidays.

 

[424Smudge]

The reason mom had her holidays removed was because of her actions on previous ones. The oldest will be 11 in a few weeks and dad has yet to get a regular Christmas with them. Either the cops are called or mom doesn't sent them. That is why the judge said all school breaks. He was supposed to have them this fall but she didn't sent them either. We know we are filing contempt charges but money is tight right now. We can barely afford to keep the electric on let alone file charges. The exact wording on the court order is as follows:
2. The present access schedule developed by the parties, and contained in the Joint
Custody Agreement, regarding weekday and weekend scheduling, as well as summer
and holiday vacations, shall remain in place. If the relocation to Tucson proceeds, as
ordered by the military, Mother may relocate to the Tucson area with the minor
children.
3. After relocation takes place, Father shall have liberal visitation which includes all
vacation periods when the children are not in school.

That is copied and pasted right off of the order. The judge has already repremanded mom once on this over the summer and I know he won't be happy to see her back in court for the same thing again but I just want your opinion on the matter. I have to go to work now though so I won't be back until later.

 

[Neal1421]

If you don't file for contempt of court, there is nothing that can be done. You will just have to find a way to pay for filing if you want things to change unless the mother has a change of heart. I doubt she will though.

 

[LdiJ]

The reason mom had her holidays removed was because of her actions on previous ones. The oldest will be 11 in a few weeks and dad has yet to get a regular Christmas with them. Either the cops are called or mom doesn't sent them. That is why the judge said all school breaks. He was supposed to have them this fall but she didn't sent them either. We know we are filing contempt charges but money is tight right now. We can barely afford to keep the electric on let alone file charges. The exact wording on the court order is as follows:
2. The present access schedule developed by the parties, and contained in the Joint
Custody Agreement, regarding weekday and weekend scheduling, as well as summer
and holiday vacations, shall remain in place. If the relocation to Tucson proceeds, as
ordered by the military, Mother may relocate to the Tucson area with the minor
children.
3. After relocation takes place, Father shall have liberal visitation which includes all
vacation periods when the children are not in school.

That is copied and pasted right off of the order. The judge has already repremanded mom once on this over the summer and I know he won't be happy to see her back in court for the same thing again but I just want your opinion on the matter. I have to go to work now though so I won't be back until later.

Based on the way that reads, I think that I agree with the attorney that holidays are addressed the way that they fall on the previous order. I sincerely doubt that the judge intended that mom would never get any holidays.

 

[424Smudge]

Based on the way that reads, I think that I agree with the attorney that holidays are addressed the way that they fall on the previous order. I sincerely doubt that the judge intended that mom would never get any holidays.

Mom has holidays, in fact, she has EVERY holiday besides for Christmas (the children attend a year-round school). The judge ordered us to attend mediation to work out a new parenting plan and I offered to alternate the winter breaks and mom said no that she "doesn't see it possible for me to have any of them because she travels out of town during that time every year"

 

[betterthanher]

The judge ordered us to attend mediation to work out a new parenting plan and I offered to alternate the winter breaks and mom said no that she "doesn't see it possible for me to have any of them because she travels out of town during that time every year"

Well tell her "tough sh*t if she doesn't see is possible." Her traveling out of town is your problem because....???

 

[SingleMom67]

The exact wording on the court order is as follows:
2. The present access schedule developed by the parties, and contained in the Joint Custody Agreement, regarding weekday and weekend scheduling, as well as summer and holiday vacations, shall remain in place. If the relocation to Tucson proceeds, as ordered by the military, Mother may relocate to the Tucson area with the minor children.
3. After relocation takes place, Father shall have liberal visitation which includes all vacation periods when the children are not in school.

That is copied and pasted right off of the order. The judge has already repremanded mom once on this over the summer and I know he won't be happy to see her back in court for the same thing again but I just want your opinion on the matter. I have to go to work now though so I won't be back until later.

The way I read this order is that "summer and holiday vacations shall remain in place." In other words what was set in the Joint Custody agreement as far as the summer/holiday vacations remain what they were in the previous order. After the move, then father was to get "vacation" periods (other than the specified holiday days in previous order) such as spring break and any other break the kids might be off (I know around my area the schools close for 2-3 days a few times a year for teacher in-service days). That's the way I interpret the new order.

Personally, I don't like the way the new order was written. It's vague and easy to be misinterpreted. I think everything needs to be spelled out in each and every order, with language in there to the effect that this order supercedes any previously set orders. It makes things so much easier when it's written as specifically as possible. Might be worth a trip back just to get more detail added/clarified. I'm sure the judge didn't intend for mom to get every Christmas either!!

 

[wrkngmom]

I was thinking the same thing as singlemom. It's up to interpretation and guessing at what the judge meant. I initially interpreted it as the father gets every vacation. As a mom speaking, I would go back for clarification. It won't help this vacation time, but for future.

 

[424Smudge]

So this is where I am still confused....

The old order only addresses who gets custody in the event that we live in seperate areas. I reviewed it to be sure today and the only thing it says is that we alternate the holidays on this schedule... on odd numbered years mom has the children christmas even and christmas day until noon and then I get the children. Then on even numbered years it switches. It does not specifically adress the issue of who has the children for the entire christmas break.
Yeah I hate the new order as well because I don't think it is fair to the children to be restricted to one parent for all christmases. That is why I brought it up to the judge and he ordered we attend mediation. No new parenting plan has been made from that session.

 

[424Smudge]

(I know around my area the schools close for 2-3 days a few times a year for teacher in-service days).

Her lawyer is saying that I don't get these days and that I am only entitled to 3 weeks in the summer because mom needs time with them in the summer as well.

 

[LdiJ]

Her lawyer is saying that I don't get these days and that I am only entitled to 3 weeks in the summer because mom needs time with them in the summer as well.

It sounds to me like you are stuck with a vague order until you work out a parenting plan. Fairness does dictate that you alternate holidays (including Christmas) and that mom gets at least a little bit of summer time.

 

[424Smudge]

It sounds to me like you are stuck with a vague order until you work out a parenting plan. Fairness does dictate that you alternate holidays (including Christmas) and that mom gets at least a little bit of summer time.

So if she had the children last Christmas then it is fair that I have them this Christmas right?

 

[SingleMom67]

So if she had the children last Christmas then it is fair that I have them this Christmas right?

Theoretically that sounds fair, but with such a crappy order, I'm having my doubts that you're gonna get them this Christmas. Hon, get that order re-written as fast as you can!!! Sorry, without reviewing your history, do you have an attorney? Sounds like you need someone to push back, especially with ex's attorney!!!!! I'm curious to see what her tone would be if you threatened contempt action.