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Hurricane Katrina

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rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
Interesting news comming out of LA re who did what when.

Red Cross was ready but LA state Homeland security, said no, they didn't want to encourage people to stay they wanted them to evaccuate.
http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html
Disaster FAQs

Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?

Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?

* Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

* The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

* The Red Cross has been meeting the needs of thousands of New Orleans residents in some 90 shelters throughout the state of Louisiana and elsewhere since before landfall. All told, the Red Cross is today operating 149 shelters for almost 93,000 residents.

* The Red Cross shares the nation’s anguish over the worsening situation inside the city. We will continue to work under the direction of the military, state and local authorities and to focus all our efforts on our lifesaving mission of feeding and sheltering.

* The Red Cross does not conduct search and rescue operations. We are an organization of civilian volunteers and cannot get relief aid into any location until the local authorities say it is safe and provide us with security and access.

* The original plan was to evacuate all the residents of New Orleans to safe places outside the city. With the hurricane bearing down, the city government decided to open a shelter of last resort in the Superdome downtown. We applaud this decision and believe it saved a significant number of lives.

* As the remaining people are evacuated from New Orleans, the most appropriate role for the Red Cross is to provide a safe place for people to stay and to see that their emergency needs are met. We are fully staffed and equipped to handle these individuals once they are evacuated.

==============

The city didn't stock the shelters of last resort with food and water because they were supposed to bring 3 days supply with them.

It looks like the Mayor and Gov have a lot of explaining to do.

N O was flooded 80% now down to 60% levees repaired.

Having trouble getting people onto cruise ships as shelters.

Looters and snipers seem to have stayed behind :confused:
 


CdwJava

Senior Member
Most of the critics I have seen have no flippin' idea how these kinds of responses work.

There were procedures and prior planning that the mayor and the givernor did NOT do ... there were requests to the state and feds that were NOT made ... the feds cannot simply unilaterally walk in somewhere without the proper requests ... etc.

Similarly, aid had to come from HUNDREDS of miles away! It is NOT as simple as just sending men and materiel into the breach - this causes far greater problems than it solves. Coordinating this kind of effort takes communication and management of manstrous proportions, and virtually ALL the infrastructure was destroyed during the storm.

You do not coordinate the response of a hundred organizations, thousands of people, and hundreds of tons of vehicles and aircraft overnight. sorry, it just isn't going to happen!

I am certain there were SOME mistakes made. But there are procedures that must be adhered to in this sort of thing and the locals did not comply with them and they are now passing the buck. Had the locals planned properly, some of the problems we have now could have been mitigated.

It is easy to criticize the president for the apparent lack of response. However, given the magnitude of the disaster I find the response impressive. Not perfect, but impressive nonetheless.

There will be plenty of lessons learned from this response for next time. That's how it works ... you learn and you improve.

It's not as easy as you think.

- carl
 

Shay-Pari'e

Senior Member
CdwJava said:
Most of the critics I have seen have no flippin' idea how these kinds of responses work.

There were procedures and prior planning that the mayor and the givernor did NOT do ... there were requests to the state and feds that were NOT made ... the feds cannot simply unilaterally walk in somewhere without the proper requests ... etc.

Similarly, aid had to come from HUNDREDS of miles away! It is NOT as simple as just sending men and materiel into the breach - this causes far greater problems than it solves. Coordinating this kind of effort takes communication and management of manstrous proportions, and virtually ALL the infrastructure was destroyed during the storm.

You do not coordinate the response of a hundred organizations, thousands of people, and hundreds of tons of vehicles and aircraft overnight. sorry, it just isn't going to happen!

I am certain there were SOME mistakes made. But there are procedures that must be adhered to in this sort of thing and the locals did not comply with them and they are now passing the buck. Had the locals planned properly, some of the problems we have now could have been mitigated.

It is easy to criticize the president for the apparent lack of response. However, given the magnitude of the disaster I find the response impressive. Not perfect, but impressive nonetheless.

There will be plenty of lessons learned from this response for next time. That's how it works ... you learn and you improve.

It's not as easy as you think.

- carl
Any chance you will be going? My company has crews available, just waiting for the word.
 

stealth2

Under the Radar Member
CdwJava said:
Most of the critics I have seen have no flippin' idea how these kinds of responses work.

There were procedures and prior planning that the mayor and the givernor did NOT do ... there were requests to the state and feds that were NOT made ... the feds cannot simply unilaterally walk in somewhere without the proper requests ... etc.

Similarly, aid had to come from HUNDREDS of miles away! It is NOT as simple as just sending men and materiel into the breach - this causes far greater problems than it solves. Coordinating this kind of effort takes communication and management of manstrous proportions, and virtually ALL the infrastructure was destroyed during the storm.

You do not coordinate the response of a hundred organizations, thousands of people, and hundreds of tons of vehicles and aircraft overnight. sorry, it just isn't going to happen!

I am certain there were SOME mistakes made. But there are procedures that must be adhered to in this sort of thing and the locals did not comply with them and they are now passing the buck. Had the locals planned properly, some of the problems we have now could have been mitigated.

It is easy to criticize the president for the apparent lack of response. However, given the magnitude of the disaster I find the response impressive. Not perfect, but impressive nonetheless.

There will be plenty of lessons learned from this response for next time. That's how it works ... you learn and you improve.

It's not as easy as you think.

- carl
.... ditto ....
 

You Are Guilty

Senior Member
I'm no fan of Bush (the president one, at least), but part of the blame lays squarely on the residents of the area. Here's one shining example:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/special/story/344387p-294036c.html

Be sure to note the caption under the picture. (Unfortunately, the internet version is too small on the internet to properly appreciate the 4 teeth the two of them share, or the myriad of other details that truly make the photo worthwhile, such as the fact that they appear to have taken up residence in a house that does not belong to them).
 

HappyHusband

Senior Member
The Gospel According to Democrats

From the Book of Democrats, Chapter 7, verses 21-25

21. And Lo, it did come to pass in the land of Cajuns, a fierce storm cameth from the Sea. The queen of the land decreed that all should flee to the lands to the North and to the West. But a great multitude did not heed the edict.

22. And the winds did bloweth and the waters did rise and there was much destruction and famine and pestilence upon the land. And the queen was much unprepared as the store houses were empty and the wells were dry, and the people did suffer.

23. And there came a prophet from the East, and he rode upon a donkey. He came into the land of the Cajuns and his face shown like the sun, and the people were sore afraid.

24. And the prophet spoketh and he sayeth "Fear not, for I am the Democratic President of the United States of America." And he smote his staff upon the earth and a great multitude of heavenly host descendth from the heavens and the pestilence was abolished, and the people feasted upon lamb and milk and honey, and every house and road was thus restored.

25. And the prophet spoketh "Come unto me withst thou votes, and ye shall dwell in the house of welfare forever." And it was so.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
HomeGuru said:
Stay tuned for BS- Bush Speak. Will it be an apology?
I'm not sure if one is necessary.

With any such emergency things can ALWAYS be done better. However, under the BEST of circumstances there is generally a lag time of 72 hours before COORDINATED rescue efforts can be made. And with the arrival of rescuers and materiel arriving from several states away (because the locals allowed their command centers and infrastructure to get pulverized ... then failed to push the right buttons for help) it is amazing that ANY coordinated effort was possible within 5 days.

Most the equipment and supplies necessary for any rescue and recovery operations were either destroyed during the storm or moved away from the storm's path ahead of time. And many organization failed to anticipate the depth of the refugee problem. Even the Red Cross' "worst case" scenario for ANY disaster has an estimate for 300,000 refugees ... and even THAT was not anticipated for this event.

As with all such disasters, relief planners are already taking a look at how they can better respond and how they can plug holes that have been discovered in the last major response. 9/11 created massive changes in emergency planning and response. And Katrina has already spurred changes at least in how CA is set up to respond to such disasters.

On the ground in New Orleans there is still a lack of coordination. Whether that is the part of the feds or the locals seems to be unclear. Word I have from friends and associates on the ground there involved with rescue operations is that the bivouac area is almost an hour and a half from N.O. and far too often they are told to rendezvous with resources outside of N.O. for expeditions into the city and the rendezvous never happens. Fortunately, many/most of the supplemental rescue units have brought their own supplies so as to be self-sustainable on the ground ... it appears that the logistics chain to supply the rescue operation is still quite spotty.

There is fault to go around. The lion's share has to go to the locals (city and state) who failed to push the panic button and take effective measures early on. Certainly the federal response leaves something to be desired, but any federal response is not to be expected for at LEAST 3 days to ANY disaster. And in one of this scale an effective response is likely to take much longer.

I anticipate that there will be many changes on all levels as a result of Katrina. But the blame for the mayhem and destruction belongs with the forces of nature - not with any individual or even any agency.

- Carl
 

BlondiePB

Senior Member
HomeGuru said:
Stay tuned for BS- Bush Speak. Will it be an apology?
The governor of LA and the mayor of N.O. also need to apologize.

Carl and I have had some discussions about this. The local and state government are the first responders. Sure this was caused by nature. There's was just too much that needed to be done to prevent such chaos after the storm that just was not done by local & state first and then the feds.

Yes, communication was lost/destroyed. That's always a problem not yet fixed. A fire department from CA had the communication equipment needed to restore communication for command & control. FEMA told them "we won't pay for the airfare, take a bus". There was also a local operation that still had communication, but then it was lost. One of the local personnel checked on the antenna. Well, lo and behold...FEMA replaced that antenna with their own and told no one. :rolleyes:

FEMA also declined boats for search and rescue and lots of other things. I was told that FEMA has to have a contract for this stuff due to liability, etc. Though I do like the Red Cross, the Red Cross also refuses donated things such a truckloads of water, etc. because they want money. This is something that the Red Cross always does.

Sending truckloads of things can cause storage and logistical nightmares. However, stranded people cannot make it to distribution centers, and the Red Cross does not go to the people. As previously stated in either another thread or PM, local leaders that get organized do a much better job in getting donated food & water to stranded victims and do not get the headlines.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
BlondiePB said:
Though I do like the Red Cross, the Red Cross also refuses donated things such a truckloads of water, etc. because they want money. This is something that the Red Cross always does.
That is for practical reasons. If someone gives them a truck load of water in CA they have to pay for transport, storage and handling to the site of the disaster in LA or AL ... not to mention the possibility (though slim) that the water supply might be tainted for some reason.

It is easier for them to arrange transit through trusted suppliers with a logistical support system to handle a large shipment and not simply a few truckloads. Making arrangements for a hundred individual transfers of supplies taxes an already burdened system.

This is also why so many donated relief supplies sit in warehouses and trucks until well in to a disaster. Blankets, toys, clothing, and other supplies arrive late into a disaster as transport, storage and cataloging needs to be done.

Sometimes the apparently easy solution is not a solution at all, but instead can be an additional burden to the effort.

- Carl
 

BlondiePB

Senior Member
CdwJava said:
That is for practical reasons. If someone gives them a truck load of water in CA they have to pay for transport, storage and handling to the site of the disaster in LA or AL ... not to mention the possibility (though slim) that the water supply might be tainted for some reason.

It is easier for them to arrange transit through trusted suppliers with a logistical support system to handle a large shipment and not simply a few truckloads. Making arrangements for a hundred individual transfers of supplies taxes an already burdened system.

This is also why so many donated relief supplies sit in warehouses and trucks until well in to a disaster. Blankets, toys, clothing, and other supplies arrive late into a disaster as transport, storage and cataloging needs to be done.

Sometimes the apparently easy solution is not a solution at all, but instead can be an additional burden to the effort.

- Carl
Being involved in hurricane disasters, I understand all the logistics of this and exactly what are the problems with people who just cannot make it to a distribution center. You wouldn't believe what local leaders did in Miami before the calvary showed up. When truckloads of Red Cross donations got too much to send to Miami for Andrew, they were sent to the fairgrounds in W. Palm Beach, which is now where PB county's Red Cross and FEMA stuff go for PB county. Then, they are sent to other Red Cross distribution centers. The closest distribution center to me is 4-5 miles away. There are residents that can't get there.

Since we here in hurricane land know this, we also know how to organize outside of Red Cross and FEMA and get things done. That's exactly what some locals are doing now for victims of Katrina. They are getting very large truckloads of needed things with transport of them donated too.

Donated clothes are another problem and definitely can take on a life of it's own. I'm not saying that the big oranizations don't have their place, they certainly do. Sometimes ya just gotta take the bull by the horns and not rely upon them, especially when you can't get to them and lives are at stake. Stop worrying about the local leaders taking things upon themselves and getting things done. They really do a wonderful job and faster too.
 
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JETX

Senior Member
HomeGuru said:
Can anyone explain why the Federal government took so long to provide help to the victims?
Very simple. What 'help' are you referring to.
If you mean to bring aid...
1) The federal government is REQUIRED to wait for requests from the local or state government first. The locals delayed in their response.
2) The local (NO) government told THEIR citizens to go to the Superdome.... but 'forgot' to provide food, water or transportation to the thousands that did what they were told to do.... go to the Superdome.
3) The local (NO) government failed to respond in a timely manner and provide transportation (city buses, school buses, dump trucks, whatever) to get THEIR people out who had no other means to leave.
4) The LOCAL emergency preparedness office (communications, plans, etc.) was underwater. No local communications at all. No police, no fire dept., no ANYTHING.

Now, the federal government....
In order to mobilize... you have to have a place to house, feed and 'dispatch' your emergency services. That means to provide housing, food, utility's, gasoline, etc. for ALL the relief workers. Remember, the entire area around New Orleans was underwater. Where would you have planned on setting up this 'relief campground'?? Where would you have housed all of the THOUSANDS of troops?
Yep.... that takes a little while to figure out. And guess what, it requires the input of the LOCALS (who know what is where and what can be done). And guess what... the locals were OUT OF COMMUNICATION!!
So, yes, there were some mightly stupid mistakes made. Were they made on purpose?? Of course not. Will lessons be learned from all this?? Of course. Was the FEDERAL government the only 'wrong party' at the parade?? Of course not.

Mistakes and short-sidedness are prevalent by EVERYONE and at EVERY level.
Do NOT make this a political issue while peoples lives and livelihood's are on the line. Lets wait until ALL the facts are in.... then learn, and grow, from the FACTS.... not innuendos and trying to gain political 'points' from it.

A very interesting article on this can be found at:
http://tiadaily.com/php-bin/news/showArticle.php?id=1026
 

JETX

Senior Member
Veronica1228 said:
While this country is being run by an ..we'll always be behind.
And the idiots and uneducated blame the President. Do you really think the President is omnipotent and liable for ALL things that happen?? If so, you need to just crawl back under your blankets, stick your thumb in your mouth and never get out of bed.

And while you raise politics as the 'catch-all' solution.... where the hell was Clinton when the levees were supposed to be rebuilt and strengthened.
Don't be an idiot and claim 'politics'. The levees (the real problem here) is is a LONG-term problem, caused by political boondoggles and pork-barrel politics going back 40 years or more.
 
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