I need objective views over a family dispute.

[Cpw vuk]

in 2011:
Dad (60yo)
Daughter (34yo)
Son 1 (31yo)
Son 2 (8yo)

Very honest to each other family with no history of conflicts.

The story begins in 2011, until today.

1. In 2010, after his parents passed, Dad wants to invest the money they left him to buy a condo, so his 3 kids (Daughter, Son1 and Son 2) can always have a place to live in.

2. Daughter knows a good realtor, so Dad gives $160k to Daughter to buy a condo for the whole family (under her name)

3. In 2011, as planned, Daughter buys a $160k Condo under her name in Florida, and everyone lives in it for a few years.

4. During that time, Daughter takes care of everything, pays taxes, HOA on it etc.
because Dad and Son 1 too oblivious and irresponsible and broke to do it,
and Son 2 too young.

5. In 2017, same realtor finds a miraculous buyer for $355k, proposes it to Daughter and Son 1,
both living together in North Carolina at that moment,
Both agree to sell.

6. After paying the fees and realtors etc,
Daughter receives around $320k.

7. Daughter and Son 1 discuss sharing everything in 3 or 4 right now, or keeping investing together so whole family capital can keep growing.
They both decide to keep investing under Daughter's name and control, like it's always been.

8. At the same moment, Son 1 asks for $10k from his share for his own use.
Daughter agrees.
Son 1 goes to live in Florida with his own $10k.
Daughter stays in North Carolina with the rest.

9. In 2018, Son 1 asks for $50k to invest in risky stocks for the family.
Daughter and Son 1 agree under the condition that if he loses it, it'd be taken out from his share only.
Son 1 loses the $50k investment after 1 year.

10. In 2018, Daughter invests in a $70k house for her to live in, and a $100k trailer park, with tenants living in it.
Both in North Carolina. Both under her name again.
Daughter never informs anyone about where the rest of money went.
320 - (70 + 100+ 10 + 50) = ?
Nobody thought about asking either.

11. in 2019, Daughter invests $20k without informing anyone, to finance her new bf's business.
Which soon flourishes.

12. During these past 2 years, Daughter keeps paying all taxes etc related to those properties.
Daughter also either lives rent free in house, or rents it away, and keeps all benefits for herself.
She also keeps all rents from trailer park's tenants for herself.

While Dad has to pay a rent in Florida for both him and young Son 2.
Son 1 has to live at friends' in Florida because he is broke.
Once again, nobody tells Daughter anything.

13. In 2019, Son 1 who had enough of the situation, organizes a meeting with Daughter,
tells her that it'd be better for everyone if they sell everything now and share fairly.
And asked what she thought a fair share would be, numbers wise.
Daughter agrees in person to sell everything and share.
But refuses to give an estimation of what percentages are owned by each other at that time.

14. Right after, Daughter disappears and stops answering calls.

15. Daughter sends $10k little by little over the course of 7 months to Son 1
without telling him what it was for.
Daughter still refuses to answer calls and questions.

16. In 2020, Daughter sold the $70k house for $180k without informing anyone (info from Zillow and Realtor.com),
Still not answering calls, and refusing to answer any questions about the rest of the real estate in North Carolina.

17. After months of silence, in 2021, Daughter informs everyone that she ever only owed Son 1 and Son 2
one third each of the initial investment, in 2011. 10 years ago.
So around $55k for Son 1, and Son 2. Each.
(So in 2021, she doesn't owe Son 1 anything anymore because of episodes described in 9. and 15.)

Daughter says everything else is hers today because "she has been taking care of it and paying for everything for 10 years."
(Estimation of everything she owns today under her name from that initial $160k family investment:
Over $400k as today's value, without including years of living rent free + rents from tenantsfrom both NC house + trailer park that Daughter always kept)

High tensions rose within the family about all that and today the family is split in 2 teams.
Team A - Dad, Son 1 and Son 2
Team B - Daughter

Dad lives in Florida with Son 2, paying a rent.
Son 1 lives in Florida, paying a rent.
Daughter lives in North Carolina, and keeps everything that is own today. (minus around $55k she says she still owes Son 2)

As today, everything has been done verbally, no written contract exists.
And everything has always been under Daughter's name.
Only around 4 or 5 witnesses can tell all this ever happened.

The situation today:
Team A (Dad, Son 1 and Son 2) wants to sell everything today, and share fairly.
Team B (Daughter) says it's all hers.

Who is right here?
Who is wrong here?
Why?
If Team A is right, what can they do about it?

I am Son 1 by the way.

Thank you for your time.

 

[quincy]

in 2011:
Dad (60yo)
Daughter (34yo)
Son 1 (31yo)
Son 2 (8yo)

Very honest to each other family with no history of conflicts.

Important part of the story is:
. Dad has EXTREME oblivious irresponsible immature mentality (like mentally 16yo)
. Son 1 has PRONOUNCED oblivious irresponsible immature mentality (like mentally 19yo)
. and Daughter is more of a responsible go-getter.

The story begins in 2011, until today.

1. In 2010, after his parents passed, Dad wants to invest the money they left him to buy a condo, so his 3 kids (Daughter, Son1 and Son 2) can always have a place to live in.

2. Daughter knows a good realtor, so Dad gives $160k to Daughter to buy a condo under her name.

3. In 2011, as planned, Daughter buys a $160k Condo under her name in Florida, and everyone lives in it for a few years.

4. During that time, Daughter takes care of everything, pays taxes, HOA on it etc.
because Dad and Son 1 too oblivious and irresponsible and broke to do it,
and Son 2 too young.

5. In 2017, same realtor finds a miraculous buyer for $355k, proposes it to Daughter and Son 1,
both living together in North Carolina at that moment,
Both agree to sell.

6. After paying the fees and realtors etc,
Daughter receives around $320k.

7. Daughter and Son 1 discuss sharing everything in 3 or 4 right now, or keeping investing together so whole family capital can keep growing.
They both decide to keep investing under Daughter's name and control, like it's always been.

8. At the same moment, Son 1 asks for $10k from his share for his own use.
Daughter agrees.
Son 1 goes to live in Florida with his own $10k.
Daughter stays in North Carolina with the rest.

9. In 2018, Son 1 asks for $50k to invest in risky stocks for the family.
Daughter and Son 1 agree under the condition that if he loses it, it'd be taken out from his share only.
Son 1 loses the $50k investment after 1 year.

10. In 2018, Daughter invests in a $70k house for her to live in, and a $100k trailer park, with tenants living in it.
Both in North Carolina. Both under her name again.
Daughter never informs anyone about where the rest of money went.
320 - (70 + 100+ 10 + 50) = ?
Nobody thought about asking either.

11. in 2019, Daughter invests $20k without informing anyone, to finance her new bf's business.
Which soon flourishes.

12. During these past 2 years, Daughter keeps paying all taxes etc related to those properties.
Daughter also either lives rent free in house, or rents it away, and keeps all benefits for herself.
She also keeps all rents from trailer park's tenants for herself.

While Dad has to pay a rent in Florida for both him and young Son 2.
Son 1 has to live at friends' in Florida because he is broke.
Once again, nobody tells Daughter anything.

13. In 2019, Son 1 who had enough of the situation, organizes a meeting with Daughter,
tells her that it'd be better for everyone if they sell everything now and share fairly.
And asked what she thought a fair share would be, numbers wise.
Daughter agrees in person to sell everything and share.
But refuses to give an estimation of what percentages are owned by each other at that time.

14. Right after, Daughter disappears and stops answering calls.

15. Daughter sends $10k little by little over the course of 7 months to Son 1
without telling him what it was for.
Daughter still refuses to answer calls and questions.

16. In 2020, Daughter sold the $70k house for $180k without informing anyone (info from Zillow and Realtor.com),
Still not answering calls, and refusing to answer any questions about the rest of the real estate in North Carolina.

17. After months of silence, in 2021, Daughter informs everyone that she ever only owed Son 1 and Son 2
one third each of the initial investment, in 2011. 10 years ago.
So around $55k for Son 1, and Son 2. Each.
(So in 2021, she doesn't owe Son 1 anything anymore because of episodes described in 9. and 15.)

Daughter says everything else is hers today because "she has been taking care of it and paying for everything for 10 years."
(Estimation of everything she owns today under her name from that initial $160k family investment:
Over $400k as today's value, without including years of living rent free + rents from tenantsfrom both NC house + trailer park that Daughter always kept)

High tensions rose within the family about all that and today the family is split in 2 teams.
Team A - Dad, Son 1 and Son 2
Team B - Daughter

Dad lives in Florida with Son 2, paying a rent.
Son 1 lives in Florida, paying a rent.
Daughter lives in North Carolina, and keeps everything that is own today. (minus around $55k she says she still owes Son 2)

As today, everything has been done verbally, no written contract exists.
And everything has always been under Daughter's name.
Only around 4 or 5 witnesses can tell all this ever happened.

The situation today:
Team A (Dad, Son 1 and Son 2) wants to sell everything today, and share fairly.
Team B (Daughter) says it's all hers.

Who is right here?
Who is wrong here?
Why?
If Team A is right, what can they do about it?

Thank you for your time.

Who are you in all of this? The responsible go-getter daughter or one of the irresponsible mentally immature ones? Or someone else entirely?

 

[PayrollHRGuy]

The dad gifted the funds to the daughter. She sold the gift and profited it from her. She doesn't owe anyone a dime.

P.S. If the daughter actually feels the father has a reduced mental age she took advantage of him.

 

[BuyLowSellHigh]

You mention that no written contract exists. That's not true. There are/were written real estate deeds that show the daughter as the owner. The definition of "fair" is subjective which each person interprets differently. But currently the daughter owns the assets.

 

[Ohiogal]

in 2011:
Dad (60yo)
Daughter (34yo)
Son 1 (31yo)
Son 2 (8yo)

Very honest to each other family with no history of conflicts.

Important part of the story is:
. Dad has EXTREME oblivious irresponsible immature mentality (like mentally 16yo)
. Son 1 has PRONOUNCED oblivious irresponsible immature mentality (like mentally 19yo)
. and Daughter is more of a responsible go-getter.

The story begins in 2011, until today.

1. In 2010, after his parents passed, Dad wants to invest the money they left him to buy a condo, so his 3 kids (Daughter, Son1 and Son 2) can always have a place to live in.

2. Daughter knows a good realtor, so Dad gives $160k to Daughter to buy a condo under her name.

Dad gifted the money to daughter who bought property for herself.

3. In 2011, as planned, Daughter buys a $160k Condo under her name in Florida, and everyone lives in it for a few years.

4. During that time, Daughter takes care of everything, pays taxes, HOA on it etc.
because Dad and Son 1 too oblivious and irresponsible and broke to do it,
and Son 2 too young.

5. In 2017, same realtor finds a miraculous buyer for $355k, proposes it to Daughter and Son 1,
both living together in North Carolina at that moment,
Both agree to sell.

Son 1 had no legal say so. Daughter was the only owner.

6. After paying the fees and realtors etc,
Daughter receives around $320k.

Daughter profited handsomely.

7. Daughter and Son 1 discuss sharing everything in 3 or 4 right now, or keeping investing together so whole family capital can keep growing.
They both decide to keep investing under Daughter's name and control, like it's always been.

Daughter was contemplating sharing her money? That was nice of her.

8. At the same moment, Son 1 asks for $10k from his share for his own use.
Daughter agrees.
Son 1 goes to live in Florida with his own $10k.
Daughter stays in North Carolina with the rest.

9. In 2018, Son 1 asks for $50k to invest in risky stocks for the family.
Daughter and Son 1 agree under the condition that if he loses it, it'd be taken out from his share only.
Son 1 loses the $50k investment after 1 year.

Daughter gifted people money. That was nice.

10. In 2018, Daughter invests in a $70k house for her to live in, and a $100k trailer park, with tenants living in it.
Both in North Carolina. Both under her name again.
Daughter never informs anyone about where the rest of money went.
320 - (70 + 100+ 10 + 50) = ?
Nobody thought about asking either.

11. in 2019, Daughter invests $20k without informing anyone, to finance her new bf's business.
Which soon flourishes.

12. During these past 2 years, Daughter keeps paying all taxes etc related to those properties.
Daughter also either lives rent free in house, or rents it away, and keeps all benefits for herself.
She also keeps all rents from trailer park's tenants for herself.

While Dad has to pay a rent in Florida for both him and young Son 2.
Son 1 has to live at friends' in Florida because he is broke.
Once again, nobody tells Daughter anything.

13. In 2019, Son 1 who had enough of the situation, organizes a meeting with Daughter,
tells her that it'd be better for everyone if they sell everything now and share fairly.
And asked what she thought a fair share would be, numbers wise.
Daughter agrees in person to sell everything and share.
But refuses to give an estimation of what percentages are owned by each other at that time.

14. Right after, Daughter disappears and stops answering calls.

15. Daughter sends $10k little by little over the course of 7 months to Son 1
without telling him what it was for.
Daughter still refuses to answer calls and questions.

16. In 2020, Daughter sold the $70k house for $180k without informing anyone (info from Zillow and Realtor.com),
Still not answering calls, and refusing to answer any questions about the rest of the real estate in North Carolina.

17. After months of silence, in 2021, Daughter informs everyone that she ever only owed Son 1 and Son 2
one third each of the initial investment, in 2011. 10 years ago.
So around $55k for Son 1, and Son 2. Each.
(So in 2021, she doesn't owe Son 1 anything anymore because of episodes described in 9. and 15.)

Daughter says everything else is hers today because "she has been taking care of it and paying for everything for 10 years."
(Estimation of everything she owns today under her name from that initial $160k family investment:
Over $400k as today's value, without including years of living rent free + rents from tenantsfrom both NC house + trailer park that Daughter always kept)

High tensions rose within the family about all that and today the family is split in 2 teams.
Team A - Dad, Son 1 and Son 2
Team B - Daughter

Dad lives in Florida with Son 2, paying a rent.
Son 1 lives in Florida, paying a rent.
Daughter lives in North Carolina, and keeps everything that is own today. (minus around $55k she says she still owes Son 2)

As today, everything has been done verbally, no written contract exists.
And everything has always been under Daughter's name.
Only around 4 or 5 witnesses can tell all this ever happened.

The situation today:
Team A (Dad, Son 1 and Son 2) wants to sell everything today, and share fairly.
Team B (Daughter) says it's all hers.

Who is right here?
Who is wrong here?
Why?
If Team A is right, what can they do about it?

Thank you for your time.

Without a written contract, Daughter owns it all and owes NO ONE anything. Statute of frauds.

 

[adjusterjack]

Important part of the story is:
. Dad has EXTREME oblivious irresponsible immature mentality (like mentally 16yo)
. Son 1 has PRONOUNCED oblivious irresponsible immature mentality (like mentally 19yo)
. and Daughter is more of a responsible go-getter.

No, that's not important at all. It's irrelevant. What is relevant is: Was there a contract between the parties, either oral or written. If oral, is there any evidence as to the terms? Any written communications regarding the arrangement?

Without a written contract, Daughter owns it all and owes NO ONE anything. Statute of frauds.

There may be an exception to the statute of frauds. There may be a constructive trust.

You mention that no written contract exists. That's not true. There are/were written real estate deeds that show the daughter as the owner.

A deed is a document conveying ownership. It is not, in itself, a contract for anything beyond the conveyance of ownership.

The definition of "fair" is subjective which each person interprets differently.

Fair is where you go on rides an eat cotton candy.

But currently the daughter owns the assets.

Which means that daughter hold all the cards.

Who is right here?
Who is wrong here?
Why?

It's not a matter of who "says" they're right, it's a matter of who has evidence that can refute the daughter's ownership.

If Team A is right, what can they do about it?

They can hire a lawyer and spend lots of money going to court over this.

 

[stealth2]

"Nice" daughter, though - taking advantage of her "feeble-minded" family. <spit>

 

[Cpw vuk]

Who are you in all of this? The responsible go-getter daughter or one of the irresponsible mentally immature ones? Or someone else entirely?

I don't think it matters in order to have an objective view of the situation for you.

 

[Cpw vuk]

The dad gifted the funds to the daughter. She sold the gift and profited it from her. She doesn't owe anyone a dime.

P.S. If the daughter actually feels the father has a reduced mental age she took advantage of him.

I edited :
2. Daughter knows a good realtor, so Dad gives $160k to Daughter to buy a condo FOR THE 3 CHILDREN (under her name)

 

[quincy]

I don't think it matters in order to have an objective view of the situation for you.

Your description of the parties involved is not exactly “objective.”

 

[quincy]

I edited :
2. Daughter knows a good realtor, so Dad gives $160k to Daughter to buy a condo FOR THE 3 CHILDREN (under her name)

You apparently mischaracterized the daughter in your original post.

 

[Just Blue]

I don't think it matters in order to have an objective view of the situation for you.

Yes, it really does matter. Based on your opening post you, whomever you are in this situation, are not "objective". If you can't/won't answer the question asked, hire an attorney to advise you.

 

[Cpw vuk]

No, that's not important at all. It's irrelevant. What is relevant is: Was there a contract between the parties, either oral or written. If oral, is there any evidence as to the terms? Any written communications regarding the arrangement?

Only evidences of the verbal contract are eye witnesses (Dad, Son 1 and another party)

 

[Cpw vuk]

You apparently mischaracterized the daughter in your original post.

I don't understand what you mean by that.

 

[Cpw vuk]

Yes, it really does matter. Based on your opening post you, whomever you are in this situation, are not "objective". If you can't/won't answer the question asked, hire an attorney to advise you.

No, it doesn't matter.
I'm not asking you to speculate on who you believe is objective or not.
But to read a situation as already stated objectively, and draw conclusions off it.
May I be any of these characters, it won't change what you can make of the situation one single bit.