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I need some help - I was terminated

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Heidiho

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Illinois

First time poster here, and I need some help and don't know where to go.

I work for a very large bank. I was recently terminated. I feel I was wrongfully terminated, but as Illinois is an employee at will state I am fearful that I have no recourse there. Are there every any exceptions to this, or any circumstances that can override this? I am happy to expand upon my situation if that is helpful. Thank you!!
 


LeeHarveyBlotto

Senior Member
At-will means you can be fired for any reason (or no reason) not specifically prohibited by law. Why were you let go?

I would add that the term "wrongful termination" has a specific legal meaning that has nothing to do with the term "fair", which is a place where livestock is judged.
 
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commentator

Senior Member
If your termination was in any way a violation of an employment contract that you had with the employer, you might have something and would need to file at once for unemployment benefits and then see an attorney who specializes in employment issues.

If you believe the termination was in violation of one of the EEOC regulations, in other words if you feel that your employer was behaving in a discriminatory way toward you based upon your sex, religious affiliation, race, etc. then this might be something that could make the termination questionable. If this were so, you'd file at once for unemployment benefits if you haven't done so already and then take the situation up with the EEOC.

If you were asked to do something illegal, immoral or particularly unsafe, or were asked to cover up wrongdoing or knew of something going on that was unsafe or illegal, and were terminated for your refusal to do so, there might be a slight possibility of an issue. You'd file for unemployment benefits and then possibly talk to an attorney. If you were fired in violation of the ADA, had made your employer aware of a disability and were terminated as a result of it, there might be something there.

Otherwise, probably there won't be any grounds to see someone, no wrongful termination involved. Because whether or not they did it fairly or justly or honestly or nicely, it's pretty much an at will state, as you said. But the unemployment insurance situation is where you'd have some recourse.

Because if they terminate you, and you have monetary eligibility to draw unemployment insurance, the employer must show that they had a good, valid misconduct reason to terminate you to keep you from receiving your unemployment benefits which will cause their tax rates to go up. In fact, even if you were to have any other kind of case, the first thing the attorney would probably advise you to do is file for your unemployment benefits while you are sorting out this other issue, which might take a long time, even if you were to prevail and show they terminated you wrongfully in some manner. Filing for benefits shakes the employer into giving some reason, for providing proof of your misconduct if they have any, or else they roll and say you were let go for lack of work or otherwise choose not to appeal the claim for benefits. Either way, it helps clarify what they're going to say in the future regarding your termination, and if they are determined not to have had a valid reason, it gives you some extra income to live on while you are job searching, having been put out of work through no fault of your own.

When you file your claim for unemployment you will tell the reason that you were terminated, describe what happened and what you were told by the employer. Then the unemployment system will contact the employer and ask them for the exact circumstances, why they say you were terminated. Neither you nor the employer is able to decide whether you get the benefits or not, this decision is made by the agency following the unemployment statutes and determining whether the employer can show they did have a valid misconduct reason to terminate you. Being sick, incidentally, even to the point of violating attendance policies and being terminated for this is not considered misconduct (for unemployment insurance purposes)if you had a valid documented medical excuse.

You file your claim for unemployment benefits. It will take some time to sort out the situation and get a decision on your eligibility. In the meantime you're looking for other work. The unemployment insurance is not needs based, it is not given only to those who are impoverished or really need it, so file immediately if you haven't already, even if you expect to find another job very shortly.
 
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Heidiho

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Illinois

First time poster here, and I need some help and don't know where to go.

I work for a very large bank. I was recently terminated. I feel I was wrongfully terminated, but as Illinois is an employee at will state I am fearful that I have no recourse there. Are there every any exceptions to this, or any circumstances that can override this?

A very brief synopsis of the event that my employer said led to my termination:

Let me begin by saying that I held this position for just over 3 months. I realized almost immediately my first day that I was much older than almost all of my co-workers. Like about 20 years older. I am in my upper 40's, but look to be mid 30's. I felt that after a month or so, the leadership of the group started wanting to get rid of me (I had been with this bank for over 18 years but on the corporate side - 90% of my co-workers came from an actual branch and held jobs like tellers, branch managers, etc. I was the only one salaried in the role I was placed in. They had scheduled lunches, shift times, and it was even expected that you would let your co-workers know when you were going to the bathroom. Not something I was super keen on at this stage in my career, and this is why I say I believe they were looking to get rid of me).

I was actually hired in at another functional job, but they put me in an entry level job to be trained. This was to be for the first 4-6 months. My job was to monitor and respond to emails that came into an email box. There is an internal system that is used for tracking all of the emails that come in; each one is assigned a reference number so that you can go back to it or add things to it as needed. An email came in that had a string of emails attached to it. The email said that they had received a resolution to their initial email, which was what the chain of emails attached were referencing. The email said that while they had received a resolution, they couldn't locate it any longer. They went on to ask an additional question. Because they had forwarded the chain of prior emails, I had the old reference number, so I pulled that up. There is a section in the system for attachments. That is where you put all of the correspondence and any relevant files. There was a file in the old entry from the group that would have provided the response to her old question, the one she said she could no longer find the response for. I took that file and sent it back to her. I also responded to her new question.

Later that day, I was terminated. Management said that the file I had sent actually contained client names. When I responded that I had only sent what was already in the file, the manager firing me responded that they would have to look into it (which told me right there that they had not fully investigated what had happened) and dispatched another manager to look at it. That manager came back and said that there was nothing in the old file that stated that the attachment I sent to the client had been sent to the client prior. The attachment I sent was in the old case, it just wasn't sent to the client, according to the managers. I was terminated for a what they called a significant privacy event.

I asked for my termination to be reviewed, and it was. I found out today that the review supported the termination.

What can I do? If there is anything else I can add please let me know. Thank you!!
 
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commentator

Senior Member
From the sound of this, and from the very brief duration of your employment there, I think that you may have a pretty good chance of being approved to draw unemployment insurance based upon your termination. However, as for any other sort of termination issue, including age discrimination, I don't believe there's anything at all there. You were pretty much terminated during your probationary period. As I said, fair or unfair, honest or dishonest, they can fire you for anything they want to, with or without reviewing it, or following their own policies or giving you any warnings. Just "at will." Be glad you didn't waste any more time with these folks.
 

Zigner

Senior Member, Non-Attorney
From the sound of this, and from the very brief duration of your employment there, I think that you may have a pretty good chance of being approved to draw unemployment insurance based upon your termination. However, as for any other sort of termination issue, including age discrimination, I don't believe there's anything at all there. You were pretty much terminated during your probationary period. As I said, fair or unfair, honest or dishonest, they can fire you for anything they want to, with or without reviewing it, or following their own policies or giving you any warnings. Just "at will." Be glad you didn't waste any more time with these folks.
The OP states that he's worked for this entity for 18+ years, just in another division...
 

Heidiho

Junior Member
From the sound of this, and from the very brief duration of your employment there, I think that you may have a pretty good chance of being approved to draw unemployment insurance based upon your termination. However, as for any other sort of termination issue, including age discrimination, I don't believe there's anything at all there. You were pretty much terminated during your probationary period. As I said, fair or unfair, honest or dishonest, they can fire you for anything they want to, with or without reviewing it, or following their own policies or giving you any warnings. Just "at will." Be glad you didn't waste any more time with these folks.
Thank you. That's what I was afraid of. I did file for unemployment immediately - I received a letter from the state that I need to do a phone interview with them on Wednesday because I indicated in my filing that I was terminated. I'm scared to death that they're going to deny me for unemployment. The company has deemed me ineligible for rehire. Quite a kick in the pants after so many years of service. I'm just sick about the whole thing.

Yeah, I wasn't sure about the age thing either, although I was there longer that the three month probationary period. I spoke to the Labor Board and they've referred me to the IL Dept. of Human Rights. Should I file a complaint with them or let it go? I do feel that they did discriminate against me - there were five of us hired at the same time. Of the five, two have already been put into the higher level role, the one that I actually already held the functional title for. They are rolling out a new model at the end of the first quarter 2015. There was a big department meeting in October about it that included an org chart with everyone's names in the role that they would be in. They still had me in the lower role.
 

commentator

Senior Member
Thanks, zigner, I didn't catch anything except the three months at this position! But in any case, don't be "scared to death" that they're going to deny your claim.

Remember that the company has the burden of proof to show that they had a good cause to terminate you. From the sound of this, they really didn't, they just wanted to get rid of you for some reason. You weren't fitting in in the new department. What you say has every bit as much weight as what the employer says. The unemployment system just decides which of the two parties, you or the employer is "most believable." Firing an employee without giving them the opportunity to change their behavior and keep the job, unless they have committed some sort of gross misconduct would be likely to be considered an over-reaction to what happened. If you had taken those customer names and posted them on Facebook, or sold them to a marketing company, for example that would be gross misconduct.

Even if they approve your claim in the first decision, the employer has the right to appeal and ask for an in person or telephone hearing to appeal the initial decision. If you are denied, you have the right to appeal and have that same hearing, and if you were denied you really would need to do this, as it sounds as though your chances to prevail are pretty strong.

Just answer the questions calmly and professionally. Memorize the phrase, 'I always tried my very best and did my job to the very best of my ability." Also it wouldn't hurt to throw in that you had had no prior warnings or reprimands, that you had no idea your job was in jeopardy, you did exactly what you believed to be the right way to handle the issue which resulted in your firing. You have had 18 years of successful employment with the company and have never had any problems before you came into this department.

Make sure that you complete the weekly certifications for benefits every week while you are waiting for the decision on your claim. If your claim is approved, you can be back paid for each week for which you have certified.

It won't hurt anything to file a complaint or speak with someone at the IL Department of Human Rights, but I reiterate that what happened to you is by no means uncommon and doesn't seem to me to be a systematic pattern of discrimination on any basis covered by the EEOC.

Remember that even if your unemployment is approved, that has no bearing on whether or not your termination was improper in any other legality aspect. They do not share information between departments, and the unemployment system is a closed system.
 

Heidiho

Junior Member
Thank you. I really appreciate you taking the time to read and advise. And thanks for the tip on the phrase to memorize - I will!

I really hate that they have marked me as ineligible for rehire. They fired me late in the day, and I still had access to the internal job postings online that night and all of the next day. I applied for some jobs while I still had the access, and actually was notified that my resume had been passed on to the hiring manager for one of the positions. The company is beyond huge, so it would be easy to go back and not have to interact with the managers that terminated me.

In case you were wondering why I would go back to a company that terminated me in this manner, it's because of the insurance. My husband has had a kidney transplant and also has other medical issues. We've been on this insurance since before he was even diagnosed with the disease that caused him to need the transplant, and I'm fearful that he'll be eliminated for having a pre-existing condition under another insurance. I am eligible for COBRA, to the tune of about $2,200/month.

I'm open to any other ideas/feedback/thoughts on what I should/can do. If it will do no harm I will file the complaint with the IL Dept of Human Rights.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
As part of the Affordable Care Act, as of January 2014 insurance plans are no longer permitted to deny coverage due to pre-existing conditions.

It can't hurt anything, but I am truly not seeing any violations or suspicions of wrongful terms, and I used to be the one who did the investigations when such a complaint was made internally.
 

Heidiho

Junior Member
As part of the Affordable Care Act, as of January 2014 insurance plans are no longer permitted to deny coverage due to pre-existing conditions.

It can't hurt anything, but I am truly not seeing any violations or suspicions of wrongful terms, and I used to be the one who did the investigations when such a complaint was made internally.
Thank you for the info about the insurance coverage. Very much appreciated. I guess I never really kept up with all of that since I figured (wrongly now, of course!) that it would never pertain to me.

I appreciate your comments, too, about the situation. It's really hard for me to separate this all out. I'm so offended too - the internal person who did the review told me today when he was going to be supporting the termination that he "had spent a great deal of time with me on the phone going over everything pertaining to the termination" - he called me on my cell phone, so I have a record of that call. We spoke for 19 whole minutes. I told him when we spoke today that I purposefully did not tell him a ton about the event, because I wanted him to do a completely independent investigation and make up his own mind. I didn't want to color his judgement - that was sure a rookie move. Apparently I'm my own worst enemy! To top it all off, when they sent me my final pay check they did not pay me for a day that I worked. I worked on a holiday and was supposed to receive a floating day of vacation for doing that. They should have paid me out, but did not. Looking back, I should have also made them change me to be classified as a non-exempt employee. I was an exempt employee, but the only exempt employee in this role. The others were all non-exempt. I probably worked about 50 hours/week, and as I mentioned I worked that holiday. The Labor Board thought I should talk to the IL Dept of Human Rights about that, too.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
The Department of Human Rights has no jurisdiction over exempt/non-exempt issues or about holiday pay or about what days you work. If it's not related to discrimination based on age, gender, race, religion etc, the Department of Human Rights is not the appropriate agency, regardless of what the DOL may have told you.
 

commentator

Senior Member
Yes, the Wage and Hour division, not the Human Rights division would be the one you'd have that discussion with about how you were being paid and whether you got paid for that last day. Remember, this is all apart from unemployment, too. It would deal primarily with the issue for which you were terminated. Think about that call you had with HR and be prepared to give the high points to the unemployment adjudicator whom you speak with coming up. Keep things factual and brief, don't go into your feelings or emotional issues with them. They'll ask pertinent questions.

You might suspect (might even work into the dialogue with the unemployment system) that the health issues your husband had might have made you some perceived liability to the employer, I've seen many companies pull this sort of thing before. Unfortunately, it'd be impossible to prove and would be legal for them to do. All it can do is make you understand that even though you were terminated this way, you were not a bad employee, that you did have a good 18 year run with them, and that bad things can happen to good people in regard to their employment.

Win this unemployment approval, and move forward toward getting a new and hopefully better position with your self esteem relatively intact. They used you for many years, and you used them as a livelihood, but they weren't your family and didn't love you, weren't supposed to. They did allow you to learn valuable skills and get experience that can be of great use to you in your next position, and that's how you'll need to pitch things to your future potential employers.
 
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