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I was fired at a Las Vegas casino for a cash shortage **UPDATE 4/28/19**

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winston3338

Junior Member
Las Vegas, NV....I was fired at a Las Vegas casino for a cash shortage that they said was a mistake, not theft. They say, while cashing sports bets tickets. I should have collected $262.50 but I paid $262.50 which would be $525.00 short yet they say, I was $533.00 short in total. This amount does not match the same amount of the ticket they say was the mistake. I was denied unemployment. I appealed because.. I was told I would be shown the ticket or the tape of my mistake and never was. It took security 7 days to find the mistake. I offered to pay the shortage back. Two weeks before the alleged shortage (12/30/2009) I twisted my left knee on a poorly installed rug behind the race and sports book counter and I was treated at a medical center but the casino wouldn't let me work with the crutches the doctor released me with so I was limping bad. I didn't report it as a work injury.

This employer has told unemployment that I had received a write up or warning for a shortage in sept, 08. I don't remember it but in between this alleged write up and my termination I was laid off for 8 months and collecting unemployment from my previous job. Upon being recalled my benefits were reinstated but I still had a 90 day probation period. Any advice for a offense against this if true. Can I win this appeal. Do they have to prove the short at the hearing. My appeal date will be the end of may.
 
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swalsh411

Senior Member
Yes the employer bears the burden of proof to show misconduct. Chances are very good that you will not be denied unemployment for a simple mistake, but it doesn't help your case if they can show you were either negligent, careless, or had made this mistake before and been warned about it. At the hearing, say that you did your best, made a mistake, wanted to keep your job (as evidenced by your offer to repay), but were fired anyway.

Your injury is not relevant to the unemployment matter and you dropped the ball on that anyway by not being truthful and reporting it as a job injury.
 

winston3338

Junior Member
Yes the employer bears the burden of proof to show misconduct. Chances are very good that you will not be denied unemployment for a simple mistake, but it doesn't help your case if they can show you were either negligent, careless, or had made this mistake before and been warned about it. At the hearing, say that you did your best, made a mistake, wanted to keep your job (as evidenced by your offer to repay), but were fired anyway.

Your injury is not relevant to the unemployment matter and you dropped the ball on that anyway by not being truthful and reporting it as a job injury.
Thank you for your fast reply swalsh411. I will make sure that I add your advice to my list. Boy you're not kidding I dropped the ball on the injury. I kick myself everyday because I'm still having problems with my knee and should have consulted a lawyer even after being fired. Thanks again

Update if you see this*** Sorry I just thought of it, this employer has told unemployment that I had received a write up or warning for a shortage in sept, 08. I don't remember it but in between this alleged write up and my termination I was laid off for 8 months and collecting unemployment from my previous job. Upon being recalled my benefits were reinstated but I still had a 90 day probation period. Any advice for a offense against this if true. Can I win this appeal. Do they have to prove the short at the hearing. My appeal date will be the end of may
 
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pattytx

Senior Member
They would show the warning as evidence of prior disciplinary action on this issue. That's not going to help your case.
 

commentator

Senior Member
Make sure that between now and then end of May when your hearing is that you continue to certify for weeks of benefits, so that if you were to win your hearing, you'd be back paid for these weeks.

Now, the big question. Are you relatively sure you make mistake that caused the cash shortage? Is there any way you can prove you did not? You were there that day, you worked, they can prove there is a cash shortage in your till, right? So it's logical to assume you were the one who made it, right? They have something they believe shows you paid out a ticket for $xxx amount of money instead of collecting that amount of money? Because this doesn't come up to the exact amount isn't really important sounding to me, its possible there was an $8 mistake elsewhere. You said it took them 7 days to find it...but obviously they did find something.

True, the burden of proof is always on the employer that they had good valid cause to terminate you for misconduct. But that doesn't mean they have to beyond any doubt and with video absolutely prove that you did make the error. It was a very reasonable error for you to make in your job, they have records showing the shortage. The unemployment office is not going to require a really high standard of proof to accept that the shortage actually occurred.

Whether you did it due to malfeasance, misconduct, carelessness when you should have been paying attention, deliberate misconduct ( you put the money in your pocketbook) something like that would be misconduct and a valid reason to terminate you. That you were doing your best and you made a mistake anyhow is not misconduct. If you were talking on your cell phone, not paying attention to what you were doing, goofing around with other employees while you made the mistake, that could be negligence on your part. If you'd blessed a friend or family member with this $300+ they should have been paying in and you paid them out, that would be misconduct.

There doesn't seem to be any reason that you should try to argue that you didn't make the mistake or to demand that you see proof that you made the mistake. Because you certainly can't argue, in light of the missing money, that you did not make this mistake unless they can show you tape of you making it.

It would appear to me that your best bet would be to take the tack that yes, I did make mistakes occasionally. Everyone does, even when doing the job to the very best of my ability. It was impossible for me to avoid doing it. I wouldn't have done it if there were any way I could have helped it. I was following, to the best of my abilities, the accepted procedures for doing the job.

Also, I had been doing this job for xxx amount of time and in that time, I had only had one previous occasion where I did this, and that was back in 2008. There had been no problems since then until this time. It might not hurt to show that since then, you were laid off, and what when you came back, you have had to go through a probationary period, and so at this time, you are considered a probationary employee on this job. So previous mistakes from your previous interval of working here should not really be considered a previous write up. During this period of employment, there have been no previous write ups or warnings.

You understood that you were being watched, that they can probably prove you made the mistake, and you are happy to try to pay the money back if they would let you. You did not want to lose the job, and you always did the job to the best of your abilities.

Now, that said, I think it is questionable to bring up the "I slipped and fell and hurt my knee, but I didn't say anything to the company."

I wonder, myself, if you said anything to anyone around you at work, or if they saw the slip on video? If so, it may actually have been a reason they fired you. Legal for them to do, but can help you get approved for u.i. perhaps.

Was there something in the rules of the company that said you would definitely be fired if there were more than two incidents of cash shortage? Had you ever seen anyone else who worked with you fired for having a cash shortage? In other words, were you always told since you've worked there that a cash shortage could be a reason to instantly terminate an employee?

I'm trying to determine if they may have treated you differently because they were trying to get rid of you--think through this angle very carefully before the hearing.

By not reporting the accident at once, you played completely into this scenario, and there is nothing in the world you can now do about it except try to get your unemployment approved. In some work situations, failure to report an accident is a misconduct reason to terminate, so as I said, you'll have to decide carefully how this should be handled. But if it does have anything to do with your being terminated for this shortage, you have nothing to lose by bringing that up in the hearing.
 
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winston3338

Junior Member
Thanks for both replies, I appreciate it. I have filed every week since January so the back pay amount is getting up to $5000...I can't prove I didn't make the mistake but I'm sure the casino has a paper trail showing the shortage. The shortage was in my window only and I was responsible for my own bank everyday. The amounts not matching is bad news for me.

I will have to work on the second half of your answer commentator. It sounds like the, I'm human defense and if the 2008 write up/warning is legit it would have been my only disciplinary action there. It truly was a honest mistake..I will try to focus on this period of employment being free of write ups or warnings as I had a 90 day review a week before and received excellent grades and comments...I will stay away from the knee injury, I blew that by not reporting it as a on the job injury so it sounds best to drop that part.

I do have the casino employee handbook and theres nothing about shortages in it. I was handling tens of thousands of dollars a week so I did have to comply with the nevada gaming commission and state gaming control board regulations along with regulation 6A cash transaction laws enacted since 9/11. As far as I know I didn't violate any of those rules. I don't have the race and sports handbook but I remember seeing the only thing about shortages in there was that any shortage over $500 was punishable by counseling or termination but, because I was brought back from layoff for football season, with the season ending in a couple weeks it was just as easy to fire me as it was to lay me off after football season. We were not told shortages would result in being fired but we knew that. Out of 13 writers someone was short every week but I think mine was the highest to date.

I have been hoping they won't show up but I would think thats not very likely. I don't know if they know I appealed the unemployment decision yet because the hearing date and notices will go out this week for the end of May. Thank you and I am open to any other advice as I need all the help I can get. I will be going up against professionals who have defended three casinos for years
 
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swalsh411

Senior Member
I would recommend a KISS strategy at the unemployment hearing. (Keep It Simple Stupid, no offense intended). Do not bring up either your previous warning or injury since neither will help you. Bottom line is that you did your job to the best of your ability, you did not want to be fire, but you were fired anyway.
 

winston3338

Junior Member
Thanks swalsh411, you were my first sign of any hope and I will follow your advice. I will stay on the defense and offer no information unless asked. KISS it shall be.
 
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csi7

Senior Member
Make certain you only answer questions directed to you specifically by the hearing officer. You follow the KISS motto and you will do just fine with the appeal.

Keep the dates of the current employment at hand when answering the questions as well.
 

commentator

Senior Member
Slightly disagree. I would bet large sums:) that the employer will say that this person had a shortage and was terminated because they had already had a previous warning. Therefore, I would deal with the warning back in 2008, explaining that it was during another period of employment, not the current one.

Because that is one of the major questions asked to both parties in the first fact finding, "did you have any prior warnings or disciplinary actions for this behavior?" If this person doesn't mention it, as I said, the record will still show it, the record will be, he/she was warned, then they did it again, then we terminated them, voila, progressive discipline.

It also would not hurt, in my opinion, to mention that the season was winding down, and that everyone was expected to be laid off after it ended in a couple of weeks. That though these shortages were very common, that you had not seen anyone else fired for this type mistake, and over and over, you did your job to the best of your ability and did not want to lose the job.

Hearing styles vary. Usually the appealing party is allowed to present, then the defending party presents, both sides are given the opportunity to ask questions of the other party, andthe appeals referee(whatever they are called in this state) will ask questions if they feel they did not the information they need to help them make a decision. In some states, the officer asks more direct questions per a structured script. But in any case, keep it simple, do not ramble, don't bring in anything unrelated, probably okay to leave the knee out unless you really feel it may have been part of the reason you were terminated.

By the way, even if the employer does not show up for the hearing, you still have to go through the hearing with the appeals referee/judge/hearing officer. Because even if the other side is not there to argue their case, you still have a denial of benefits, and if you don't convince the officer that the denial was wrong, you don't get benefits even if the employer didn't show up. They are always much more likely to show for a telephone hearing than an in person hearing, but either way, good luck.
 
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winston3338

Junior Member
Thanks for your reply cs17. I am picking up bits and pieces from each reply and putting them into a one shot presentation. Thanks commentator, The previous warning or possibly a write up did come up during the phone interview and caught me off guard. At 56 the old memory just isn't the same but it did tell me that it will come up at the hearing so having a proper response will be important. I've lived in las vegas 30 years and I know the Nevada Department of Employment is pro casino's at the very least.

I do believe my limping around the casino weighed in their decision to terminate me but I won't clog the issue at hand with it. I also know I have to present my side whether they show or not and I believe it will be in person at this time. Thanks for taking the time, I have already learned a lot and I'm thinking, hiring an attorney would not be in my best interest with limited savings left. I did invest $30 in a 30 minute telephone consultation but I've learned more right here. This phone interview will happen tomorrow, (tuesday) morning and I've emailed him most of this same information last night. She doesn't know about this thread because I'm looking for any information I can get without giving her ideas. I didn't find this site until after setting up this consultation and would have never done it if I had came here first. You have all given me information I couldn't afford to pay for. I hope to make you proud...:D
 
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commentator

Senior Member
Unemployment insurance, even if approved, usually doesn't pay enough to warrant hiring an attorney to represent you. And they are supposed to be simple enough that a person can represent themselves without undue stress. If you present yourself politely, professionally, and as others have said, keep things simple and concise, stay on the themes mentioned above, you should do fine without legal representation. Dress nicely, do not be overly talkative or familiar, even if its just you and the appeals referee, listen carefully, think before speaking. You may want to write some talking points on your hand!

Try not to assume the department is going to be pro employer. They are supposed to be unbiased, to treat each party the same, to assume that either or both of you may be lying. Notice I said "try" and here in the real world and all...but it really doesn't profit them a bit if the employer wins or you win, it has everything to do with presentation and their impression. The hearing officer is human, too, and will be subjective to some extent, even though they try not to be.

Good luck, let us know how it comes out. You will not hear anything until a time after the hearing, its not an on the spot judgment. Keep making weekly certifications.
 
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TigerD

Senior Member
As a cashier or other person assigned the responsibility of handling money, you have one job: Don't screw up the money.

You failed in your assigned duties and it cost your employer. You were dismissed for cause. You can appeal the decision, but it is highly unlikely that you will win.

DC
 

swalsh411

Senior Member
A screw up of your primary job function is not necessarily misconduct; there are many factors to consider. If your employer brings up the warnings (which they probably will) be consistent that you kept trying to do your best but were fired anyway; it's really all you have at this point.
 

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